arsenals?

[NWMoss]

So... (I'm gonna get crap for this) I was watching some new show on hulu the other day, and this compound of religious (fanatics?) was invaded, Waco-style, on a warrant issued because this group had an "arsenal"?

What the heck???

Anybody know of legislation on how many guns you can own?

And WHY is hollywood making owning multiple guns look like just cause to invade somebody's property????

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[parsons_12b]

ummmm Dollhouse what a great idea. As far as the raiding of the compound I thought the same thing if they commited no crime what does it matter if they had guns or not.

 

[Weathermaker]

First...let me make it clear that the person refered to in the quote below was obviously a mental case.

But, nevertheless, here's what appeared in my local newspaper yesterday...guessing it was picked off one of the national wire services.

"The court papers indicate investigators have found an arsenal in [the] bedroom, including two 12-gauge shotguns, a rifle and a box of 550 .22-caliber bullets..."

Now, since the article doesn't mention the caliber of the rifle, I'd assume it was a .22 since that's what the ammunition was.

Geez...all I can say is, "what's going on here."

 

[torpedoman]

working from memory (sometimes not the best) i think 10 guns of the same caliber is considered an arsenal by the atf

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I have a small collection of firearms, but if I ever commit a heinous crime I am sure the media would represent my collection as a "deadly arsenal."

To us, if we look at the pics below, it is just a couple gunsafes with a modest collection inside. The media would see a madman's mass holdings of deadly weapons. It is all about agenda and perspective.

 

[Wierzbowski]

I thought that the warrant was issued because someone (turned out to be the pesky ATF guy) wrote "Help me" on the back of a shopping list that they handed to the owner of the local grocery store.

Also, I think they mentioned that the cult leader had been served time for one or more felonies which would make gun ownership a no-no in many (most?) jurisdictions.

I hope "Dollhouse" survives. I liked Whedon's "Firefly", but Dollhouse is falling short so far. I hear that episode six is supposed to be where it starts to get good.

 

[finch6013]

Gun porn!!!

 

[NWMoss]

working from memory (sometimes not the best) i think 10 guns of the same caliber is considered an arsenal by the atf

Okay, but is it ILLEGAL?

 

[Thunder]

Those pictures are beautiful, I hope someday to have as much.

 

[Rix]

So far, everything I own besides the Mosin is semi-auto.
MUST be an aresenal.
I even have several thousand rounds of varying ammunition. (counting the .22 lr of course)


Well... at least I did before the boating accident that sunk them all to the bottom. :wink:

 

[dragonsden73]

Wow..even Webster and other online dictionaries seem pretty vague:

ar⋅se⋅nal
   /ˈɑrsənl, ˈɑrsnəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ahr-suh-nl, ahrs-nuhl] –noun

1. a place of storage or a magazine containing arms and military equipment for land or naval service.
2. a government establishment where military equipment or munitions are manufactured.
3. a collection or supply of weapons or munitions.
4. a collection or supply of anything; store: He came to the meeting with an impressive arsenal of new research data.

col⋅lec⋅tion
   /kəˈlɛkʃən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuh-lek-shuhn] –noun

1. the act of collecting.
2. something that is collected; a group of objects or an amount of material accumulated in one location, esp. for some purpose or as a result of some process: a stamp collection; a collection of unclaimed hats in the checkroom; a collection of books on Churchill.

So it appears that a "collection" of a "supply of weapons or munitions" (Arsenal) could theoretically be as little as two or three firearms. Snap.

 

[Weathermaker]

working from memory (sometimes not the best) i think 10 guns of the same caliber is considered an arsenal by the atf

Interesting point...but, geezz a family with a dad and say three kids could have ten 22's...counting rifles and hanguns.

I know this because not too many years ago, I had at least ten 22's...between mine, my son's and several being saved for my grandkids and one left to my son by his granddad. And that didn't inlcude any 22 caliber handguns, which I have since pasted on to my daughters, daughter-in-law and son-in-laws.

 

[SimonJester308]

Why are "we" seem to be worried about the definition of an arsenal. Those who want civilian disarmament dont want you to have even one. I would guess there are several "collections" that would be considered arsenals. Multiple firearms that are the same make model and caliber, and can you believe it might be done on purpose(OMG the horror!) IMHO we waste too much precious time trying to polish our image, worrying if our collections of firearms might be considered arsenals or not. Heres my simple question that might bring closure to the dilemma. Ask yourself do you own more firearms than you can carry and use at one time? Or do you own more firearms than what every member in your household can carry and use at one time? If the answer is no, then rest assured its not an arsenal. If the answer sounds anything remotely like "there are a dozen scoped Mosin Nagants with 500 rounds for each rifle leaning against the back wall of my grandmothers basement right next to the canned peaches" then chances are granny has something cooking on the back burner, because that would be what I think could be defined as an arsenal.

 

[spengo]

Why are "we" seem to be worried about the definition of an arsenal. Those who want civilian disarmament dont want you to have even one. I would guess there are several "collections" that would be considered arsenals. Multiple firearms that are the same make model and caliber, and can you believe it might be done on purpose(OMG the horror!) IMHO we waste too much precious time trying to polish our image, worrying if our collections of firearms might be considered arsenals or not. Heres my simple question that might bring closure to the dilemma. Ask yourself do you own more firearms than you can carry and use at one time? Or do you own more firearms than what every member in your household can carry and use at one time? If the answer is no, then rest assured its not an arsenal. If the answer sounds anything remotely like "there are a dozen scoped Mosin Nagants with 500 rounds for each rifle leaning against the back wall of my grandmothers basement right next to the canned peaches" then chances are granny has something cooking on the back burner, because that would be what I think could be defined as an arsenal.

Actually I was thinking it might be kind of cool to buy a couple crates full of mosins. Not fancy scoped PU sniper ones or whatever, just cheapo generic 91/30s. Then if the zombies rise up or there is WROL you could hand them out to friends and family.

Is there anything WRONG with having an "arsenal?"

 

[NWMoss]

Actually I was thinking it might be kind of cool to buy a couple crates full of mosins. Not fancy scoped PU sniper ones or whatever, just cheapo generic 91/30s. Then if the zombies rise up or there is WROL you could hand them out to friends and family.

Is there anything WRONG with having an "arsenal?"

From what I can find on BATF's website so far, no.

I've found no limits on the number of firearms one can own anywhere.

Better go out and buy more...

 

[SimonJester308]

From what I can find on BATF's website so far, no.

I've found no limits on the number of firearms one can own anywhere.

Better go out and buy more...

If for no better reason than to ensure they dont fall into the 'wrong' hands.

 

[SimonJester308]

Actually I was thinking it might be kind of cool to buy a couple crates full of mosins. Not fancy scoped PU sniper ones or whatever, just cheapo generic 91/30s. Then if the zombies rise up or there is WROL you could hand them out to friends and family.

Is there anything WRONG with having an "arsenal?"

You should do just that. Figure it might cost you $200 for each rifle with 500 rounds of ammunition. Weigh that against the cost of 1 AR15. Lets see for the cost of 1 AR15 could have armed 6 friends and family members with rifles and 3000 rounds of ammo. I guess Stalin was right, quantity does have a quality all of its own.

 

[tionico]

One "caution" against the buy cases of Mosin idea is this: our recently installed Attorney General (BHO promised "change", didn't he?) has been on record of such mutterings of establlishing some sort of executive order calling for the banning of, and subsequent collection of, firearms of a type used by military and/or police. Sometimes the "difference" would be so silly as the S&W .357 revolver in stainless would be a civilian weapon, but paint the same stupid thing black and have S&W's "M&P" logo on the flank and suddenly its on their list to collect. Thus, the Mosin Nagants would, having been designed and used by/for military, by definition be on that forbidden list. I'm certain Ruger's Mini 14 Ranch, with the wood stock and plain-jane, would be a "tool" for the stockmen/sporting crowd. However, get the same hardward attached to a different stock and suddenly I'd own an "assault weapon", and would be required to surrender it. '

Thus, my present thinking is to stay with collecting an "arsenal" of varying "sporting" rifles of various calibers, most non-military but at the least military rounds in long sporting use, as the .30-06, .308, .223, even the 8mm Mauser. Thus, should they actually come calling to take up our firearms of the "military and police" classification (assuredly defined as loosely as possible) I'd have few, if any, to show them. However, a case of M-N military rifles, now, that would be a horse of a different colour. I'd far rather have weapons not likely to be classed as military and police than to have ones that are, and have to decline to admit to their presence... and then, should I be caught later on with them, suffer some rather unpleasant consequences. Stashing such a cache may or may not be difficult, or successful. Not to mention the paperwork ruckus such a purchase might stir up. I can imagine the appropriate personnel catching wind of such a transaction and making note of it against the day they might get orders to come round looking up such a stash. And I see all manner of older sporting rifles at the gun shows, many for well under the $200 mark, still serviceable. Sure, the case of M-N's would be simple and quick.. in the short run. But that route may well lead to early trouble further on. If I could obtain a case of them on a private sale from someone I was certain was not gang- or other such related (in other words, a "clean" transaction) I'd do it. But to talk to a dealer or some other trackable channel, well, that might be defeating the whole purpose before getting out of the gate. Such a transaction well may attract a level of attention (and record keeping) I'd rather avoid.

 

[finch6013]

Reading all that gave me a head ache. Good post though.

 

[Weathermaker]

There's an awful lot of M1 Garand's out there that have no traceability to the owner.