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AR15 Pistols - ATF has common sense!

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by SCARed, Apr 3, 2014.

  1. SCARed

    SCARed Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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  2. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Really? How is this new? They have been saying it for years.

    It is just another guy asking the same question that has been answered many times. One problem with doing such things is occasionally these things make the ATF look into them further and possibly change rulings.

    Along with that technically the letter is ONLY good for the person it was sent to. Even then if the ATF changes it mind the letter isn't even worth the paper it is written on. Has happened many times.
     
  3. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    That's why they're now attempting to ban 5.45x39 importation because of AK pistols in that calibre... ATF and "common sense", yeah... right.
     
    1337BaldEagle likes this.
  4. SCARed

    SCARed Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say the ATF always had common sense, but on this issue they seem to.

    And on that, from what I've seen, the ATF has seemingly avoided answering the question of using the arm brace as a stock, if it constitutes a SBR. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but that's what I've found.
     
  5. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    A broken clock is right twice a day... I guess the ATF can be too, on occasion.
     
    Redcap likes this.
  6. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    <Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel! Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!

    Actually it's only the steel core ones they want to ban, not the lead core. But, just in case, I ordered another 1,000 rds of lead core last night, shipped a few hours ago.

    Deen
    NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
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    "A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"
     
  7. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    The ATF has VERY clear definitions of what each type of firearm/item is. Often we can disagree if the law/definition is correct. One thing the ATF does very consistently, even if it sounds dumb (shoestring MG) is follow those definitions VERY tightly.

    Here are all of those definitions, http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.11

    It is VERY clear why the Sig Brace is NOT an NFA item and has been clearly stated since LONG before the Sig brace came out why it is not illegal to shoulder a pistol. If you wanted to, not that it would be practical, you could shoot a revolver from your shoulder and it would be no different.

    In the case of AR pistols with shouldering buffer tubes there is one area where you may run into trouble. There are some AR pistols, the OA-93 for example, that do NOT require a buffer tube to function. In that case it could easily be stated the only reason to add a buffer tube was to use it as a stock, in which case it would become an SBR. .
     
  8. jg-rider

    jg-rider Hillsboro OR Member

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    Last edited: Apr 5, 2014
  9. Kruejl

    Kruejl Hillsboro Moderator of the Coriolis effect Staff Member Gold Supporter Silver Supporter

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    Very strange. I lived in Greenwood Village for about 4 years.
     
  10. boarder4life81

    boarder4life81 Eugene, Oregon Active Member

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    It has to deal with the Sig pistol stabilization brace for AR-15 pistols.

    There was concern that the ATF might try and classify AR pistols outfitted with these as SBR's. The letter simply states the mere presence of the brace does not re-classify the firearm

    SigBrace.jpg
     
  11. fd15k

    fd15k Tigard,OR Well-Known Member

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    Reminds me of this...

    shoestring-machinegun.jpg
     
  12. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The problem as I see it is that although the ATF has stated that use of the brace with an AR or AK pistol is legal, that is what they are saying *TODAY*

    The ATF is *infamous* for changing their minds; with a stroke of the pen and *not* a vote of Congress or the people, they have made what was once legal, now illegal.

    http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2001-1.html

    ------

    Beyond that, I am not convinced of the utility of AR/AK pistols. Those with a barrel length shorter than 10" are not that much shorter than a bullpup, those with a barrel length longer than 10" are approx. matched by a bullpup - the bullpups having a much more effective (IMO) barrel length of 16" or longer, and a better balance - combined with the much lessened chance of becoming illegal by bureaucratic fiat.
     
  13. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    The ATF does not have to say it is ok though. Today or any other day. By their (Federal) very own definitions it is not illegal. Laws are written to say what is illegal or to define things, not to say they are "ok" or legal.

    It is very clear both in Federal definition and in the ruling letter sent with these stocks that quotes those laws that it is not illegal. So unless they change the laws that won't change.

    Handguns are not "designed" to be fired "gangster" style (sideways) but that does not magically make them "not-handguns".........
     
    fd15k likes this.
  14. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I don't have as much faith in the process as you do.

    We have seen the examples of the ATF declaring a class of firearms "illegal" by changing their interpretation of the law, without any change in the law itself - so if it happened once, it can most certainly happen again.
     
  15. telero

    telero Salem area, Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    At least this opinion letter makes sense. There is one asking about pistol grip only firearms that use shotgun shells, and whether they are AOWs if the OAL is 26"+ even if the barrel is not 18". The letter.

    Basically they say:

    1) By definition, an AOW has to be "capable of being concealed on a person"
    2) A firearm is capable of being concealed on a person when it measures less than 26 inches in overall length
    3) A firearm measuring greater than 26 inches in length may be classified as an AOW if it's actually concealed on a person

    So it would have to be less than 26 inches to be capable of being concealed (and therefore if it's over 26 inches it's not capable of being concealed), unless it's longer than 26 inches and is concealed.
     
  16. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Ahem....

    sideways_gun_sight.jpg
     
    boarder4life81, Redcap and Nwcid like this.