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Freezing temps also immobilize zombies so we're good.
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AR reliability below freezing
- Thread Starter rjmt
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I saw lots of tracks, but we were up high elevation and got the forecast and it changed for the worse, 5in a day, so we moved to lower elevations. Dusting of snow down there and tons of hunting pressure. I got on another set of tracks but couldnt catch up to them.
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There are two main types of failures from cold; lube failures and tolerance failures. Most modern steels are going to be significantly hardier to cold-tolerance failures than older steels. They just have a smaller coefficient of expansion, in general. I am sure there are probably some ARs out there that are so tight a little cold shrinkage would cause issues, but for that platform the biggest culprit of failures will be the lube. ARs do not like gummy lube, they like slick-as-snot stuff, and just enough in just the right places. Most people overlube their ARs, and coupling that with a lube the gels at cold temps and that could lock up an AR solid.
Don't do that. Lube the bearing surfaces and wipe off the excess, and use a cold tolerant lube that stays oily as low as you expect it to go. Vola! Your AR should never have issues with the cold.
Don't do that. Lube the bearing surfaces and wipe off the excess, and use a cold tolerant lube that stays oily as low as you expect it to go. Vola! Your AR should never have issues with the cold.
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Nevermind on the video above. This one has Charlie in it so might be more entertaining.
View: https://youtu.be/3Ujo2ZoB4cg?si=TpgG6rUHYRuNwnjw
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In all of my 20+ years in my prior career I've never experienced or known of any issues with a AR-15 platform due to the cold. I was an armorer and had to inspect weapons every year. We had mixes of Colt, Bushmasters, LWRC and Knights Armament over the years.
No matter what the temperature fluctuations were they always worked. They would sit in vehicles in freezing weather, be taken out in rain or snow, etc….Sometimes they would sit in vehicle's in below freezing weather for extended periods of time.
Some people (myself included) took care of their weapons, but some wouldn't. They always worked. About the only thing that was consistent was occasionally surface rust from being taken in and out during the course of work or training.
For lubricant we used synthetic Mobile One oil.
My disclaimer is I have never intentionally poured water over any weapon and let it freeze nor would I.
I can say the same thing about Glock handguns. 100% reliable in all weather conditions.
No matter what the temperature fluctuations were they always worked. They would sit in vehicles in freezing weather, be taken out in rain or snow, etc….Sometimes they would sit in vehicle's in below freezing weather for extended periods of time.
Some people (myself included) took care of their weapons, but some wouldn't. They always worked. About the only thing that was consistent was occasionally surface rust from being taken in and out during the course of work or training.
For lubricant we used synthetic Mobile One oil.
My disclaimer is I have never intentionally poured water over any weapon and let it freeze nor would I.
I can say the same thing about Glock handguns. 100% reliable in all weather conditions.
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I never had problems with an AR or its lube freezing and causing problems. Back in the 70's in Montana I degreased my uncle's old Colt with gasoline because it got cold af during hunting season and I knew everything, lol. That old Colt was one of the hunting mainstays for most everything but elk. For those we'd use a BLR .243 and .257 and .300 wby magnums.
Anyway, never ever had a failure even down to incredibly cold temperatures, lubed or not.
Anyway, never ever had a failure even down to incredibly cold temperatures, lubed or not.
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Colt Sauer?
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Old Weatherby's
I have never encountered an AR variant failure or malfunction caused by environmental factors.
I have trusted Militec-1 Lubricant in the uncomfortable environments, and I am surprised that I don't see it mentioned more often. The application process requires more time and involvement, but I found that the time was recovered with the reduction of effort needed for cleaning. Applied wet, operates as a dry lubricant, water rolls off, dust blows off, ice falls off, most of the carbon can be removed with a nylon brush, and best of all…. No need for that bub bubbledy-gummed stinking CLP… wouldn't wish that gum gummedy-bubbled poison on my second most-worster enemy.
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My neighbors would crap their pants if I shot an AR off my porch.
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Putting your rifles into a freezer and then shooting them doesn't really prove anything. It would make more sense to replicate the the 1980's patrol rifle test for the Alaska State Troopers. It consisted of running the rifles through a warming/cooling cycle so condensation could be created. The AR pattern rifles failed in this test. The Galil and Valmet functioned without issue according to the test.
Today, the AST do issue AR pattern rifles. I'm not sure if they're modified in anyway to prevent condensation from freezing the action of the gun. The North Slope Borough Police Department in Alaska is famous for issuing AK pattern rifles as patrol rifles to their officers. This test is almost 40 years old, but the methodology seems sound and I'd be curious the results today if it was replicated, esspecially since ARs have gotten a lot better than they were back in the day thanks to more precise manufacturing techniques.
EXTREME COLD WEATHER TESTING
Treacherous Weather, Dangerous Killers And Lonely Roads Dictate That Alaska State Troopers Be Equipped With The Finest Cold Weather Rifles Available
By Jeffery Hall
Nationwide, law enforcement agencies are encountering criminals armed with sophisticated weapons. Assault rifles, shotguns, quality handguns, and automatic weapons are common. The traditional service revolver and pump shotgun are often outclassed in a firefight.
This situation is especially hazardous to the state trooper or highway patrol officer. These officers work lonely stretches of roadway, far from back-up and support facilities. A rifle can make all the differences, as encounters often take place at ranges beyond the effective range of shotguns or revolvers. This was dramatically shown in the Norco, California, bank robbery.
Several state police agencies have adopted a service rifle to be carried in the patrol car to augment the shotgun and revolver. Oklahoma, Kentucky, Mississippi, Kansas, Idaho and others have selected and adopted a service rifle for general issue. In some cases, this program started after a specific incident in which officers were injured or killed due to a lack of effective firepower.
In February of 1984, I was authorized by the Alaska State Troopers to conduct an evaluation of existing rifles for consideration as a service rifle. Due to the climate of Alaska, certain specific requirements had to be met.
We began by listing the basic requirements we felt necessary. These were:
1. 100% reliability after prolonged cold exposure
2. Night sights, if available
3. Large trigger guard for use with gloved hands
4. Folding stock
5. .223 or .308 calibers
6. Detachable box magazine, 20 to 30 round capacity
7. Must have a flash suppressor and sling mounts
8. Require minimum maintenance
The major firearms importers and manufacturers were contacted and asked to submit a sample weapon for testing. A clear understanding was reached with each supplier that the weapons would probably be damaged during testing.
Upon receipt, each weapon was inspected and field stripped. Each received a thorough cleaning to remove all oil and grease. The weapons were not lubricated at all following the cleaning.
All of the test samples were taken to the range by our special weapons team marksman. He fired each for familiarity, using different firing positions and ranges. We were not concerned with match accuracy, only with a consistent shot group in the four-inch range. All were fired using the same lot of military ball ammo, and the same lots of Federal FMJ ammunition in .223 and .308, respectively.
All of the rifles fired, showed acceptable accuracy, with none being exceptional. The HK-91 showed the tightest groups, averaging about two inches. Approximately 200 rounds were fired through each rifle, and they were not cleaned after shooting.
We then loaded guns and gear into a four-wheel drive vehicle and drove 400 miles north of Fairbanks to Coldfoot, Alaska: The average daily high temperature was -20° F, with lows at night in the -40° F range. These were good working temperatures and would be consistent with much of the state during the winter months.
The first test consisted of leaving the weapons outside for several hours, then bringing them into a warm room for thirty minutes. This allows moisture to condense on the weapons, which then freezes when they are put back outside. This often occurs when a firearm is brought into a warm room then put back into a cold car trunk. This warming/ cooling cycle was repeated six times with each weapon. No malfunctions resulted, with all of the rifles being capable of fire.
Next, one pint of warm water was poured into the bolt and trigger group of each weapon. It was then allowed to stand outside in -20° F weather for three hours. After three additional hours inside we experienced a 60% failure to function in the weapons. Either the hammer would not fall at all, or the hammer fall was too weak to detonate the round. The only weapons that experienced no malfunction were the two Galils, the Valmet and the FNC.
All of the weapons were then brought into a heated room (+70° F) and warmed for thirty minutes. After heating, all of the rifles functioned properly. Unfortunately, heated shelter may not be available when needed.
Finally, all of the weapons were cleaned of ice and lubricated heavily with Break-free. The lubricant was sprayed into the bolts and trigger groups and the weapons were cold soaked for fourteen hours at -40° F. The test showed the true colors of the weapons involved, for all but four failed to function after this test. Again, only the Galils, the Valmet, and the FNC were able to function and fire. The other weapons showed bolts frozen shut, selectors and safeties frozen, and hammers that would not fall. All of the rifles but the Galils, Valmet, and FNC were then eliminated for consideration. These, not surprisingly, share a Kalashnikov ancestry. The weapons performed as follows:
7.62 Galil No Malfunction
5.56 Galil No Malfunction
HK-91 A round was chambered and would not fire. Round was manually extracted, another was chambered which did fire. The weapon cycled and the third round would not fire. Manually operated, fourth round would not fire. Charging handle broke off.
HK-93 Fire rounds manually cycled, none fired.
HK-93A3 Same as above.
Valmet No Malfunction.
Ruger Mini-14 Five rounds manually cycled, none fired, hammer frozen, safety frozen.
M1-A Bolt would not draw far enough to the rear to chamber a round. Unable to fire.
Colt M-16 Forward assist had to be used to close the bolt. Selector frozen, could not be moved. Five rounds cycled manually, none fired.
Colt AR-15 Magazine release frozen, selector frozen.
FN-FAL Five rounds manually cycled, none fired.
FN-FNC Five rounds fired with no malfunctions. Last casing stovepiped in ejection port. Gas regulator moved to "adverse conditions" setting and five rounds fired with no malfunctions.
We later spoke with a factory representative of one of the companies involved, who was very disturbed at our results. He called his engineering department, who assured him that if the weapon was cleaned, then lightly lubricated with a synthetic lubricant, it would function properly. The entire purpose of the evaluation was to see if any of the weapons could stand up to the neglect and direct abuse we gave it. If all had failed, we would have felt that our test was unrealistic. The fact that four of the weapons performed 100% of the time shows that some are suited and some are unsuited to a cold climate. In addition, police officers are notorious for neglecting their equipment, even though their lives depend on it.
There were many other features considered in deciding which weapon we preferred. Weight, balance, trigger pull, sights, ease of operation, cost, availability of options, ease of maintenance, etc. were all considered.
The clear winner and our first choice was the Galil .223. It was 100% reliable, accurate, and easy to shoot. It has the best night sights available and an excellent folding stock. It has a reciprocating bolt handle, which can be drawn to the rear then pushed forward to lock a round in the chamber. This is a very desirable feature when the weapon is frozen or very dirty. The bolt and safety can be manipulated with either hand. It is very easy to field strip, without tools, and parts are easily replaced.
The Galil and its accessories are expensive, but not out of reach. If you are with a police department or an individual that works in a cold climate, it is the best weapon you can get.
For information on the Galil, contact: Douglas Evans, Magnum Research, 2825 Anthony Lane S., Minneapolis, MN 55418.
NOTE: The Alaska State Troopers have not yet adopted a service rifle, due to budgetary limitations and other factors. This article expresses the opinions of the author. The Department of Public Safety does not endorse any product.
The author: Jeffrey Hall is a veteran of the 173rd Airborne and 75th Infantry (Ranger). An Alaska State Trooper for seven years, he has been a member of the Department's Special Weapons Team for four years, and is presently assistant team leader. He holds a black belt in karate and is two time state IPSC Pistol Champion.
Troy L. Duncan, Alaska State Trooper, was the co-author of this project. A former Marine captain, Duncan had spent two years testing and evaluating cold weather equipment for the U.S.M.C. Trooper Duncan was a member of the Department's Special Weapons Team and was killed in action while arresting a multiple homicide Suspect.
Treacherous Weather, Dangerous Killers And Lonely Roads Dictate That Alaska State Troopers Be Equipped With The Finest Cold Weather Rifles Available
By Jeffery Hall
Nationwide, law enforcement agencies are encountering criminals armed with sophisticated weapons. Assault rifles, shotguns, quality handguns, and automatic weapons are common. The traditional service revolver and pump shotgun are often outclassed in a firefight.
This situation is especially hazardous to the state trooper or highway patrol officer. These officers work lonely stretches of roadway, far from back-up and support facilities. A rifle can make all the differences, as encounters often take place at ranges beyond the effective range of shotguns or revolvers. This was dramatically shown in the Norco, California, bank robbery.
Several state police agencies have adopted a service rifle to be carried in the patrol car to augment the shotgun and revolver. Oklahoma, Kentucky, Mississippi, Kansas, Idaho and others have selected and adopted a service rifle for general issue. In some cases, this program started after a specific incident in which officers were injured or killed due to a lack of effective firepower.
In February of 1984, I was authorized by the Alaska State Troopers to conduct an evaluation of existing rifles for consideration as a service rifle. Due to the climate of Alaska, certain specific requirements had to be met.
We began by listing the basic requirements we felt necessary. These were:
1. 100% reliability after prolonged cold exposure
2. Night sights, if available
3. Large trigger guard for use with gloved hands
4. Folding stock
5. .223 or .308 calibers
6. Detachable box magazine, 20 to 30 round capacity
7. Must have a flash suppressor and sling mounts
8. Require minimum maintenance
The major firearms importers and manufacturers were contacted and asked to submit a sample weapon for testing. A clear understanding was reached with each supplier that the weapons would probably be damaged during testing.
Upon receipt, each weapon was inspected and field stripped. Each received a thorough cleaning to remove all oil and grease. The weapons were not lubricated at all following the cleaning.
All of the test samples were taken to the range by our special weapons team marksman. He fired each for familiarity, using different firing positions and ranges. We were not concerned with match accuracy, only with a consistent shot group in the four-inch range. All were fired using the same lot of military ball ammo, and the same lots of Federal FMJ ammunition in .223 and .308, respectively.
All of the rifles fired, showed acceptable accuracy, with none being exceptional. The HK-91 showed the tightest groups, averaging about two inches. Approximately 200 rounds were fired through each rifle, and they were not cleaned after shooting.
We then loaded guns and gear into a four-wheel drive vehicle and drove 400 miles north of Fairbanks to Coldfoot, Alaska: The average daily high temperature was -20° F, with lows at night in the -40° F range. These were good working temperatures and would be consistent with much of the state during the winter months.
The first test consisted of leaving the weapons outside for several hours, then bringing them into a warm room for thirty minutes. This allows moisture to condense on the weapons, which then freezes when they are put back outside. This often occurs when a firearm is brought into a warm room then put back into a cold car trunk. This warming/ cooling cycle was repeated six times with each weapon. No malfunctions resulted, with all of the rifles being capable of fire.
Next, one pint of warm water was poured into the bolt and trigger group of each weapon. It was then allowed to stand outside in -20° F weather for three hours. After three additional hours inside we experienced a 60% failure to function in the weapons. Either the hammer would not fall at all, or the hammer fall was too weak to detonate the round. The only weapons that experienced no malfunction were the two Galils, the Valmet and the FNC.
All of the weapons were then brought into a heated room (+70° F) and warmed for thirty minutes. After heating, all of the rifles functioned properly. Unfortunately, heated shelter may not be available when needed.
Finally, all of the weapons were cleaned of ice and lubricated heavily with Break-free. The lubricant was sprayed into the bolts and trigger groups and the weapons were cold soaked for fourteen hours at -40° F. The test showed the true colors of the weapons involved, for all but four failed to function after this test. Again, only the Galils, the Valmet, and the FNC were able to function and fire. The other weapons showed bolts frozen shut, selectors and safeties frozen, and hammers that would not fall. All of the rifles but the Galils, Valmet, and FNC were then eliminated for consideration. These, not surprisingly, share a Kalashnikov ancestry. The weapons performed as follows:
7.62 Galil No Malfunction
5.56 Galil No Malfunction
HK-91 A round was chambered and would not fire. Round was manually extracted, another was chambered which did fire. The weapon cycled and the third round would not fire. Manually operated, fourth round would not fire. Charging handle broke off.
HK-93 Fire rounds manually cycled, none fired.
HK-93A3 Same as above.
Valmet No Malfunction.
Ruger Mini-14 Five rounds manually cycled, none fired, hammer frozen, safety frozen.
M1-A Bolt would not draw far enough to the rear to chamber a round. Unable to fire.
Colt M-16 Forward assist had to be used to close the bolt. Selector frozen, could not be moved. Five rounds cycled manually, none fired.
Colt AR-15 Magazine release frozen, selector frozen.
FN-FAL Five rounds manually cycled, none fired.
FN-FNC Five rounds fired with no malfunctions. Last casing stovepiped in ejection port. Gas regulator moved to "adverse conditions" setting and five rounds fired with no malfunctions.
We later spoke with a factory representative of one of the companies involved, who was very disturbed at our results. He called his engineering department, who assured him that if the weapon was cleaned, then lightly lubricated with a synthetic lubricant, it would function properly. The entire purpose of the evaluation was to see if any of the weapons could stand up to the neglect and direct abuse we gave it. If all had failed, we would have felt that our test was unrealistic. The fact that four of the weapons performed 100% of the time shows that some are suited and some are unsuited to a cold climate. In addition, police officers are notorious for neglecting their equipment, even though their lives depend on it.
There were many other features considered in deciding which weapon we preferred. Weight, balance, trigger pull, sights, ease of operation, cost, availability of options, ease of maintenance, etc. were all considered.
The clear winner and our first choice was the Galil .223. It was 100% reliable, accurate, and easy to shoot. It has the best night sights available and an excellent folding stock. It has a reciprocating bolt handle, which can be drawn to the rear then pushed forward to lock a round in the chamber. This is a very desirable feature when the weapon is frozen or very dirty. The bolt and safety can be manipulated with either hand. It is very easy to field strip, without tools, and parts are easily replaced.
The Galil and its accessories are expensive, but not out of reach. If you are with a police department or an individual that works in a cold climate, it is the best weapon you can get.
For information on the Galil, contact: Douglas Evans, Magnum Research, 2825 Anthony Lane S., Minneapolis, MN 55418.
NOTE: The Alaska State Troopers have not yet adopted a service rifle, due to budgetary limitations and other factors. This article expresses the opinions of the author. The Department of Public Safety does not endorse any product.
The author: Jeffrey Hall is a veteran of the 173rd Airborne and 75th Infantry (Ranger). An Alaska State Trooper for seven years, he has been a member of the Department's Special Weapons Team for four years, and is presently assistant team leader. He holds a black belt in karate and is two time state IPSC Pistol Champion.
Troy L. Duncan, Alaska State Trooper, was the co-author of this project. A former Marine captain, Duncan had spent two years testing and evaluating cold weather equipment for the U.S.M.C. Trooper Duncan was a member of the Department's Special Weapons Team and was killed in action while arresting a multiple homicide Suspect.
Today, the AST do issue AR pattern rifles. I'm not sure if they're modified in anyway to prevent condensation from freezing the action of the gun. The North Slope Borough Police Department in Alaska is famous for issuing AK pattern rifles as patrol rifles to their officers. This test is almost 40 years old, but the methodology seems sound and I'd be curious the results today if it was replicated, esspecially since ARs have gotten a lot better than they were back in the day thanks to more precise manufacturing techniques.
I use the stuff on nearly everything. I originally started using it on my wheel bearings in my rollerblades for hockey. They made cleanup so much easier than the typical grease that was commonly used.
I knew someone who would put an ounce in their differentials and claimed it made subsequent oil changes easier and less sludge. I think he just didn't change his diff oil often enough - but that's neither here nor there.
It can be used as a fuel or oil additive, which I think is aimed at the trucking industry. I've never tried it as such, I prefer Hotshots Secret in my diesel.
For gun stuff, it's all I have used for the last couple decades now. A 4oz bottle will last you 10 years and isn't all that expensive to start with, I don't think.
They don't seem to spend as much on the marketing as other firearms focused lubes.
Time to find a porch somewhere with no neighbors.
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I had a problem with Grease, Rifle turning my Garands into manually loading rifles, until they got warned up. Now l use synthetic grease, still have another unopened grease, rifle can from l believe 1963.
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- Thread Starter
- #55
I've always used Lubriplate SFL-0 lithium grease on my Garands, M1A and all my Mosins
good to -60
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Once a life time dream, now too late in my life for that.
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- #57
I have neighbors, but their house is 200 yrds away and they shoot also
only shoot off the porch after warning my wife now
about 10 years ago, I was siting in a Mosin M38 by the house
unknown to me, my wife just got home on the other side of the house, was getting out of the car with a carry container with 2 Starbucks coffee
Mosin went off, she threw both Moca up in the air and was covered in hot coffee
she was not a happy wife for days
after that I moved my shooting berm 200 yrds from the house
still shoot off the porch, but only after she puts her ears on in the house
even if there was a Karen out here to call the county Sheriff Dept, they wouldn't come
has to be a dead body to get them to come this far out
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Welp, there's no avoiding it now ...
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSZXWdKSQNM&ab_channel=America-Topic
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Country Gent beat me to it with a vid, but I was gonna say one thing. America!Hmmm....does that go along with A horse with no name...?
Andy
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