ACSS LPVO - First or Second Focal Plane For Defensive Use?

[3MTA3]

My aging eyesight has me moving from a 1x Prism to a LPVO on a pair of AR's. It's really a better fit for these rifles which have very accurate barrels. The scope I'm looking at is the Primary Arms SLx 1-6x24mm, as I really like the ACSS reticle and the glass is very good. The choice comes down to FFP vs SFP. The price difference isn't a factor, just trying to decide which is the best fir for defensice purposes.

The ACSS reticle is below - it consists of a horseshoe with holdovers for accurate shooting at range as well as terget movement. For CQB you just keep the target in the horseshoe for minute of bad guy like you would with a lot of red dots and prisms. At range, then more careful use of the holdovers.

I think it boils down to which is best at CQB, since at range it will likely be zoomed all the way out where the reticle will be the same anyway. At lower powers is where the difference will show up. I'm leaning SFP to make the "horseshoe" easier to quickly get on target during CQB but would appreciate your thoughts.

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[Cerberus Group]

Depends on the reticle. A thicker reticle may hide part of the intended target as magnification is increased.

Just need to try out different reticles at different magnification levels against different sized objects to make a good decision on which way to go.

 

[powermad]

The only way I would go with a FFP LPVO is with a March but that is a bit more than the PA 1-6
I like the PA SFP LPVO scopes.
I had a 1-6 and have a 1-8 with the ACSS reticle.

 

[clanhanson]

FFP makes zero sense unless you have 8x or greater magnification. Make sure the optic has a daylight bright dot, forgiving eyebox, and fairly true 1x and you're good to go.

 

[3MTA3]

The only way I would go with a FFP LPVO is with a March but that is a bit more than the PA 1-6
I like the PA SFP LPVO scopes.
I had a 1-6 and have a 1-8 with the ACSS reticle.

How is the 1x6 at full magnification?

 

[Member 34319]

Having had many PA optics, I've decided I'd rather stick with their fixed power optics over a variable. I never switched the zoom and usually left it on the lowest power anyways and for close quarters you'll likely stay on the lower variable anyway. The variables are also heavier and bigger, especially when compared to other brands.

I know this isn't about that so…

If you see yourself needing the extra zoom, Id say go with the 1st focal plane as they make it easier to use the reticles built in hold overs by enlarging them. Having owned a second focal LVPO, the hold overs were as difficult to use when fully zoomed, as they are on a 1x prism. Fully zoomed on a second plane would be beneficial to someone struggling with reticles at low power.

 

[titsonritz]

Depends on the reticle. A thicker reticle may hide part of the intended target as magnification is increased.

Just need to try out different reticles at different magnification levels against different sized objects to make a good decision on which way to go.

^^^This 100%. As a general rule of thumb for LPVO 6x and under SFP is GTG, start getting into 8x and above FFP becomes a nice feature, but again it is highly dependant on the style of reticle and use of scope.

 

[No_Regerts]

I'd go with whatever's cheaper.

 

[powermad]

How is the 1x6 at full magnification?

I don't have a lot of time behind different scopes but I didn't think it was bad.
Good enough to see a 10" round plate at 100 yds and see the strikes anyway.

The eyebox is much better on the 1-6 than the 1-8, much more forgiving.

 

[3MTA3]

I am planning on getting one of their 4-16 FFP DMR scopes for my AR308, It has the same core reticle used by all their ACSS scopes. so I think that will give me a better idea. Though it won't go anywhere near as low I can still see the effect as I zoom in and out.

 

[powermad]

I had the 1-8 on my .308 AR and wound up putting a 6-24x50 Vortex Diamondback on it.
I screwed the pooch on that one.
I thought not having an illuminated reticle wasn't a big deal until I tried using it when overcast and under trees.
I love that feeling when you come to the conclusion that it wasn't money well spent.

I was looking pretty hard at the Arken 4-16x50 scopes and what I probably should have gotten when it was in stock, but the 34mm tube and needing yet another mount, I cheaped out.
Two week lead time isn't too bad.

SH4 4-16X50 GEN2 FFP MOA VPR Illuminated Reticle with Zero Stop - 34mm Tube

8-12 Week Backorder Lifetime Warranty Precision Tracking Guaranteed HD Glass First Focal Plane (FFP) Zero Stop Specification: Magnification: 4-16 x Objective Diameter: 50 mm Eye Relief: 3.6 inches Field of View: 30 -7.5 ft @100 Yards Tube Size: 34 mm Turret Adjustment: 1/4 MOA Reticle Position:…

www.arkenopticsusa.com

Rex seems to like them.

I've been looking at the Primary Arms 2.5-10x44 lately as well with the Griffin-mil reticle.

 

[3MTA3]

I had the 1-8 on my .308 AR and wound up putting a 6-24x50 Vortex Diamondback on it.
I screwed the pooch on that one.
I thought not having an illuminated reticle wasn't a big deal until I tried using it when overcast and under trees.
I love that feeling when you come to the conclusion that it wasn't money well spent.

I was looking pretty hard at the Arken 4-16x50 scopes and what I probably should have gotten when it was in stock, but the 34mm tube and needing yet another mount, I cheaped out.
Two week lead time isn't too bad.

SH4 4-16X50 GEN2 FFP MOA VPR Illuminated Reticle with Zero Stop - 34mm Tube

8-12 Week Backorder Lifetime Warranty Precision Tracking Guaranteed HD Glass First Focal Plane (FFP) Zero Stop Specification: Magnification: 4-16 x Objective Diameter: 50 mm Eye Relief: 3.6 inches Field of View: 30 -7.5 ft @100 Yards Tube Size: 34 mm Turret Adjustment: 1/4 MOA Reticle Position:…

www.arkenopticsusa.com

Rex seems to like them.

I've been looking at the Primary Arms 2.5-10x44 lately as well with the Griffin-mil reticle.

I just got an Arken 6x25 for a budget long range build. Haven't had time to give it more than a quick look see, but so far exceeds expectations. Everything I have seen in reviews from Rex Tibor and Cyclops holds up and all controls are silky smooth, Eye box is very small but doable. I also got the Arken rings and they look pretty good as well. I plan to lap them once on the rifle once it arrives.

The rifles I'm asking about in this thread fall into a category that falls between CQB and DMR, hence the LPVO. I have a pair of lighter rifles that will remain as 1x prisms for CQB usage.

 

[3MTA3]

An update: I got a deal on a used (condition is as new) FFP version of the scope. I'm very happy with it and at 1x the reticle is very much like a red dot and at 6x it's very large and easy to read. IMO it would be very usable in SFP as well and would be very Vortex Spitfire like at 1x. The reticle has illumination and the brightest setting will easily hold up during a sunny day.

For my own part I prefer the FFP as the BDC aspects work at all powers. I think this would be an awesome hunting scope on a for that reason - just find anything about 18" as a reference and you have the range dead on. The manual has information for sighting in the ACSS reticle for several cartridges that will result in accurate BDC.

I'm really impressed with the quality of the scope and I don't see much room for improvement with the optics. There is a barely visible amount of chromatic aberration at 6x, but you really have to look for it. The glass is clear and distortion free at all powers out to the edge.

The seller included a GLx cantilever base and it exceeds expectations. It's very well made and very rigid. It places the scope at a co-witness height with my front sight, though there is no way I can flip up the rear sight with this scope. The throw lever just clears my Troy folding rear sight.

 

[nwslopoke]

My old tired eyes needs magnification. I have a few LPVO from 1-4 to 1-6. The best being a Leopold Firedot 1-4 but is at the lower limits of my vision.

Surprisingly, the 3x Nikon 3x32 is a good old school CQB option because it's clear, bright and has a much wider field of view Than most 20-24 mm LPVO. I never shot anyone so I won't argue whatsoever what is the best option, but I still use mine and it works.

 

[3MTA3]

My old tired eyes needs magnification. I have a few LPVO from 1-4 to 1-6. The best being a Leopold Firedot 1-4 but is at the lower limits of my vision.

Surprisingly, the 3x Nikon 3x32 is a good old school CQB option because it's clear, bright and has a much wider field of view Than most 20-24 mm LPVO. I never shot anyone so I won't argue whatsoever what is the best option, but I still use mine and it works.

Still bummed out that Nikon got out of the scope biz. 3X is a good all around choice for a fixed optic. I shoot with both eyes open at lower powers to compensate for a smaller field of view. It takes a lot of practice, but does work.

This scope is replacing a Leupold 3-9 that has the firedot (absolutely love this feature) that was commandeered for my new hunting rifle, a Savage in 280AI.

I really like the LPVO for this AR308. It's a bit better suited for defense, but also makes it a great hunting option for the wet side of the Cascades.

 

[ALapping]

For defensive use personally FFP doesn't make sense. Small chance I would need much if any magnification in that circumstance. The same size reticle all the way through fits this role better imo. I doubt I'd ever need to worry about distance holdover etc. Mine has the 1moa center dot on SFP.

 

[3MTA3]

For defensive use personally FFP doesn't make sense. Small chance I would need much if any magnification in that circumstance. The same size reticle all the way through fits this role better imo. I doubt I'd ever need to worry about distance holdover etc. Mine has the 1moa center dot on SFP.

For a red dot I can see that - the ACSS reticle pushes this into DMR territory, and that's IMO where FFP shines. At low power it's effectively a red dot. At high power you have a quick and effective BDC with built in ranging capabilities. You can even quickly compensate for wind or a moving target.

By being FFP it minimizes the ACSS features when you don't want a busy reticle.

This video shows some of that

 

[powermad]

I use the Strelok+ ballistic app and it has quite a few reticles.
With my data plugged in the BDC is pretty close to 400 yds.

Showing a 200 yd target with hold over, max magnification.


I can dial it from 1-8 and it will show the corrected range (SFP)
200 yd on 4 power.


One of these days I may get it out past 200 yds to verify the rest.

Arken VPR reticle, 200 yard target, 168 gn
Easy enough to memorize the BDC out to 500.

 

[AnimalMother]

SFP and check out the SwampFox Arrow 1-8.

 

[3MTA3]

SFP and check out the SwampFox Arrow 1-8. I prefer everything about it over a Vortex PST. The PST is a little more clearer. It's better than the Burris RT6, Strike Eagle, SLX. I think it's as good as or better than the Viper PST.

Sounds like a great option. Which reticle did you get?

If I used crosshairs I wouldn't really care if it were FFP or SFP, but with a BDC type reticle I've found I prefer FFP.