A quick rant....

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Modeler, Nov 7, 2014.

  1. Modeler

    Modeler
    Molalla, Oregon
    Soccer Fan

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    I carry Federal HST 124 gr in my 9mm carry guns. Up until now it has come in 50-round cardboard boxes and could be had for $23-28 per box. Suddenly it's only available in fancy plastic boxes of 20 rounds and costs $25-28 per box. That's right, a cost increase of over 50% due to repackaging.

    I e-mailed Federal to see what's so special about the new stuff that could have explained such a giant leap in price; I doubt I'll hear anything, but if I do I'll be sure to post it.
     
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  2. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist
    Oregon
    AK's all day.

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    Yep! A ton of defensive loads are starting to come out like that, half as much for twice the price.
     
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  3. 2506

    2506
    Seattle
    Well-Known Member

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    Time to roll your own. Speer Gold Dot in 124gr box of 100 is about $25 and is about the same as the Federal HST, I think.
     
  4. Modeler

    Modeler
    Molalla, Oregon
    Soccer Fan

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    I'm not into reloading my carry rounds; I managed to find a place that had 50 round boxes for the normal price and bought 6 boxes. That should last me for a while.
     
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  5. Steve M

    Steve M
    Beaverton, OR
    Well-Known Member

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    The little 20 round boxes for $25 have always been with us, before plastic they were the usual thin cardboard. Those 50 round boxes for $25 are usually excess from LE and government orders that you generally won't find in your LGS and supply is sporadic in nature. SGAmmo had them in stock on Oct 7th and has now sold out. I suspect we may be experiencing an ammo shortage.
     
  6. BAMCIS

    BAMCIS
    Eugene
    Well-Known Member

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    Agree on the "half as much for the same price" phenomenon going on. I sure hope you get a reply Modeler.

    Totally agree. It is not wise to reload your defensive/carry rounds. Just imagine of the smoke and mirrors a lawyer will have with that if (God forbid) you shot someone with reloads.
     
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  7. 2506

    2506
    Seattle
    Well-Known Member

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    A prosecutor arguing that a defendant misused lethal force via handloads is an imaginative "what if" that has never actually happened in a courtroom.
     
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  8. phidelt208

    phidelt208
    Springfield, OR
    Active Member

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    This was my understanding as well.
     
  9. BAMCIS

    BAMCIS
    Eugene
    Well-Known Member

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    I agree it is very imaginative, but it wasn't necessarily the prosecutor to whom I was referring. Fact is most prosecutors are pro self protection. They know they have to face the voters, and prosecuting a citizen for use of force is a very hard uphill battle both in the courtroom and at the ballot box.

    Instead, the "what if" guy/gal who is far more worrisome is the ambulance chaser who files the wrongful death suit against you for using "more deadly ammunition". They're only limited by their imagination as to how they spin your choice of ammo (or reloads) in front of a jury. "The defendant wasn't happy with what the police use. No!! He made MORE DEADLY ammunition right in his garage just hoping to get to try it out on a human being. That human being was my client's poor innocent son........" and it goes on from there.

    Go ahead. Use whatever you want. It makes absolutely no difference to me.
     
  10. Modeler

    Modeler
    Molalla, Oregon
    Soccer Fan

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    Exactly.
     
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  11. NoFlinch

    NoFlinch
    In a van down by the river
    Owner of Cocaine addicted dog.

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    Have you bought Lays potato chips lately?!
    HUH?
    Have You?
    First.....11 oz pkg.
    Then 10.5 oz
    Then 10 oz
    NOW it's 9.5 oz!

    My GOD!
    Is there no mercy?

    OH, sorry....................:D:D:D:):):):D:D:D
     
  12. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim
    West of Oly
    Springer Slayer Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer 2017 Volunteer

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    How do they (prosecutors) know if you reloaded the ammo? Unless you tell them? Just curious.
     
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  13. Steve M

    Steve M
    Beaverton, OR
    Well-Known Member

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    I would imagine that the prosecutor isn't the one inspecting and recording the evidence. An XTP loaded in Winchester brass with a CCI primer might catch the eye. Switch to nickel plated brass and match the bullet and brass to a commercial offering and then maybe they'd not notice. But if you were up for murder charges you better believe that they'll show up at your house with a warrant and discover your cop killer bullet factory.

    I'd feel more comfortable carrying an XTP or Gold Dot that chronos out to the same velocity or less than a factory load than hoping that they don't figure out that I've got reloads.
     
  14. 2506

    2506
    Seattle
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    The instance of a prosecutor going after a citizen for using handloads in a defensive shooting has not actually happened anywhere that anyone can document. The Internet discussion boards call it an “urban legend from Massad Ayoob,” which is maybe not fair to Ayoob. I don’t think Massad ever claimed a specific case where it had happened, only that it could.
     
  15. Kruejl

    Kruejl
    Hillsboro
    Moderator of the Coriolis effect Staff Member Gold Supporter

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    I only fire daily carry PD ammo if its really old or in a new carry piece to make sure it feeds/fires well. Otherwise I plink with the cheap stuff. I'm used to $1.00/round PD ammo and I'm good with it as long as it goes off and does what's advertised. Hornady Critical Duty or Winchester PDX1 for me.
     
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  16. SinisterSouthpaw

    SinisterSouthpaw
    SW WA
    Active Member

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    Welcome to the future--which handloaders have been experiencing for a few years................oh--and people who buy gasoline and heat their homes in winter and etc etc
     
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  17. AMProducts

    AMProducts
    Maple Valley, WA
    Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer

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    I totally get the source of your rant, but the $1+/rd price has been with all of us for a long time. I've never been overly impressed with federal's defense offerings, so I don't use it.

    I'm currently considering a switch over to speer GDHP over the previous winchester PDX1, I've been noticing that it seems to be starting to break down a bit, largely due to winchester's lackluster plating and loading process.

    What I consider "must haves" in PD ammo:

    Bonded/Solid bullet - With previous PD ammo, I've shot the stuff into water, and had a mostly mushroomed jacket, part of a mushroomed core, and a bunch of fragments. Not really confidence inspiring
    Nickel Plated Case - Nickel is a relatively noble metal, this prevents oxides and remnant gun cleaners from attacking the brass case and either sticking the case in the chamber (if it's left in the chamber for an extended period, or during inclement weather) or deactivating the powder/primer
    Nickel Plated Primer - See Above
    Sealed - Ammunition should be sealed to avoid intrusion of oil and solvents to protect powder and primer.
     
  18. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth
    Josephine County
    Active Member

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    Only ammo I have is target ammo, I'll define what the target is later.
    Finger nail polish works as a sealant in a pinch
     
  19. oli700

    oli700
    Rogue Valley
    Well-Known Member

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    its a non factor, the stuff internet is made of......all the arguments that COULD be used can be equally rebutted.

    The biggest for real worry about reloads in defensive weapons it reliability, reloads are only as good as the loader and the process they use......you cant make a round in the reloading room that is anymore of a mystical human slayer that the factory defensive rounds on the shelf
     
  20. Sabertooth

    Sabertooth
    Josephine County
    Active Member

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    I'm working on the mystical bullet, it will go around corners and only hit the bad guy in the gun hand.:D
     
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