38 special shorts?

[Mayberry59]

Don't know if it's the right spot for this. I was out looking thru the ammo area of a local outdoor supply store and they have a fair amount of 38 special shorts. First time in my 65+ years that I've heard of them. Any one ever seen them? Shot them? Know why they exist?

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[RVTECH]

First time in my 65+ years that I've heard of them. Any one ever seen them? Shot them? Know why they exist?

I only learned about them a few years ago myself.

A guy gave me a couple to shoot outta my Mod 60 snub.

I believe they were created for CAS shooters.

 

[Will_White]

I only learned about them a few years ago myself.

A guy gave me a couple to shoot outta my Mod 60 snub.

I believe they were created for CAS shooters.

Because rabbit farts weren't weak enough?

 

[RVTECH]

Because rabbit farts weren't weak enough?

LOL! Yep! Not much to 'em!

Id say the farts are stronger!

 

[orygun]

Don't know if it's the right spot for this. I was out looking thru the ammo area of a local outdoor supply store and they have a fair amount of 38 special shorts. First time in my 65+ years that I've heard of them. Any one ever seen them? Shot them? Know why they exist?

My brother in law was having a problem with case extraction out of his S&W 38 Special revolver. He brought me the box and said, "they are a little shorter."

The box said 38 Super.

 

[Mikej]

.38 special shorts,
.38 special Shorts?
Anything like "Bermuda Shorts"?
"Shorts", Rhymes with Schwartz--??

 

[Aught Six]

38 Special shorts....

Thought they called them 9mm

 

[orygun]

38 Special shorts....

Thought they called them 9mm

.380.

 

[DeanMk]

.38 special shorts,
.38 special Shorts?
Anything like "Bermuda Shorts"?
"Shorts", Rhymes with Schwartz--??

May The Schwartz be with you!

 

[DeanMk]

Don't know if it's the right spot for this. I was out looking thru the ammo area of a local outdoor supply store and they have a fair amount of 38 special shorts. First time in my 65+ years that I've heard of them. Any one ever seen them? Shot them? Know why they exist?

I think Wikipedia has solved this mystery.
I Googled ".38 Special Shorts" and the Wiki hit that came up was....

.38 Short Colt

As part of the text, I found the following passage...

"Visually, it resembles a .38 S&W but the case dimensions are slightly different. The .38 Short Colt case is the parent to the .38 Long Colt and .38 Special.
Remington is one of the few producers of this cartridge today with a 125 gr LRN bullet. Magtech produces this grain weight and Ten-x manufactures a 95 gr load, as well as blanks."

Granted, my first thought was rebadged .38 S&W, but the case of those are slightly larger and they shoot a slightly larger bullet, but .38 Short Colt makes much better sense.
So, there you go. That is very likely what you saw.

 

[CountryGent]

Granted, my first thought was rebadged .38 S&W, but the case of those are slightly larger and they shoot a slightly larger bullet, but .38 Short Colt makes much better sense.

When I first saw the the thread, I too was thinking rebranded .38 S&W or .38⧸200 as our British friends call it. I've seen at least one ammo vendor sell that cartridge as a ".38 Short". However, as mentioned, it is a tad bigger around and won't fit in a .38 Special / .357 Magnum chamber. (In a wackier moment years back, I tried.*) I wasn't aware of a shortened .38 Special. Neato, I suppose, but I can think of any particular need to do so, personally.

* Actually, whilst writing this reply I spied a speedloader with the lil' Webley fodder in it. And I realized there was Smith in a wood box on desk too. (There is, admittedly, a strange mix of objects in home office.) Still no fit.

 

[DLS]

When competing in ICORE matches, I shoot
.38 Short out of my .357 Magnum. When using speed loaders, the short, stubby rounds chamber much faster than the longer progeny.

I use 9mm Parabellum load data. This works very well, as you can pretty much consider the Short to be a rimmed 9mm, the capacity is nearly identical.

 

[DLS]

Why does it exist?

The original. 38 Colt fired a taper heeled bullet (like the..22LR) of .375 diameter. It was designed to be used in cap and ball conversions.

Shorty after its introduction revolvers were converted to use a non-tapred, inside lubricated bullet of .358 diameter.

The case was lengthened to allow for more black powder and hence more velocity. Thus was born the .38 Long and to avoid confusion the original .38 Colt became known as the .38 SHORT Colt.

Lengthen the case again and it became the .38 S&W Special.

Lengthen again, now you have the .357 Magnum.

One more time, and the again lengthened case led to the .357 Maximum.

 

[CountryGent]

Very neat on the ICORE application. And 9㎜ Parabellum ballistics are nothing to sneeze at.

 

[po18guy]

Because rabbit farts weren't weak enough?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ro4DrewXHE

 

[DeanMk]

When competing in ICORE matches, I shoot
.38 Short out of my .357 Magnum. When using speed loaders, the short, stubby rounds chamber much faster than the longer progeny.

I use 9mm Parabellum load data. This works very well, as you can pretty much consider the Short to be a rimmed 9mm, the capacity is nearly identical.

Wiki lists 9x19 as having a max pressure of 35K psi (SAAMI).
If we take the name of the "Special Short" round literally and use .38 Special load data as a guide for determining max pressures, then the SAAMI rating lowers to 17500 psi (this would be a standard pressure round).
If we go with the fact that the Special Short is really just a rebadged .38 Short Colt, and use it as a pressure guide instead, the pressure lowers even more, to 13K psi (should be noted that this is CIP, not SAAMI).
Either way, I would be wary of using 9mm Luger load data as a guide for loading the Special Short round.
Personally, I'd use the Short Colt data as a guide, if any exists. Otherwise, I'd go with .38 Special standard pressure load data to base my loads on.

 

[DLS]

There is no "Special Short" round that I am aware of. I think the OP misremembers what he saw, mistyped, or was given bad info.

Regarding load data, I should have been more precise, thanks for bringing up a potential problem.

For ICORE I load to the equivalent very light, lead bullet, target oriented loads. Cowboy action level of velocity, which is very near the velocity of the original .38 SC round. There is a power factor at some matches, but it is very low.

While a GP100 could easily take the pressure of a 9mm (even at +P levels) there is no point in doing this with .38SC brass. If you want a high pressure load, using the appropriate longer brass reduces bullet jump (and gas bypass), carbon ring formation in the cylinder, and creates a better correlation between the load's energy and case headstamp.

That, and .38SC brass is not cheap!

I hope this makes for better, safer info.

 

[DeanMk]

There is no "Special Short" round that I am aware of. I think the OP misremembers what he saw, mistyped, or was given bad info.

Regarding load data, I should have been more precise, thanks for bringing up a potential problem.

For ICORE I load to the equivalent very light, lead bullet, target oriented loads. Cowboy action level of velocity, which is very near the velocity of the original .38 SC round. There is a power factor at some matches, but it is very low.

I hope this makes for better, safer info.

Thanks. That does make much better sense, but the ammo does appear to be made by Magtech (possibly other makers, as well)

38 SPL-Short 125GR LRN - Magtech

Click to know all the key informations about 38 SPL-Short 125GR LRN

magtechammunition.com