Nightmare firearms sale and jerk FFL

[Arkitek]

PbP...Sorry you are going thru this, but thanks for posting it! I am learning a lot, about a process I'm really ignorant about. It will be FTF for me...on all future transactions. Good luck and thanks again for informing us!

Just a thought...why is this FFL being allowed to continue posting...member or not, he's definitely not here to contribute in a positive way...he needs to take a walk!

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

Now the the FFL is a member and i assume getting notification of new posts.

What is your suggestion to resolve this?

Also PBP, how would you like this resolved? I did see you offered to return the buyers money. seems like now this is an issue of the dealer being out money to return the firearm to a dealer to transfer back to you.

If you need an FFL to transfer back to you, i will do it for the $10 it costs me.

But i am interested to hear whats Sams Emporiums suggestion is to resolve this.

 

[Bill Siegle]

I am kinda curious who the board member is that set this deal up for disaster by not having his info straight from the getgo. I'd like to make sure I don't get involved with them. Sorry to hear this is happening to you PbP.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Also PBP, how would you like this resolved? I did see you offered to return the buyers money. seems like now this is an issue of the dealer being out money to return the firearm to a dealer to transfer back to you.

My preference would be to see the gun processed and given to the buyer. Short of that I would want to see the gun returned to me so I can refund his money. Unfortunately the FFL has made that unlikely by forcing me to contact authorities. I am waiting now to talk to the Pheonix, AZ ATF. They are having hone issues causing all their calls to be forwarded to Washington, DC at the moment. The DC branch said to call back in an hour.

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

My preference would be to see the gun processed and given to the buyer. Short of that I would want to see the gun returned to me so I can refund his money. Unfortunately the FFL has made that unlikely by forcing me to contact authorities. I am waiting now to talk to the Pheonix, AZ ATF. They are having hone issues causing all their calls to be forwarded to Washington, DC at the moment. The DC branch said to call back in an hour.

yeah, that happens.

 

[theduke]

I am kinda curious who the board member is that set this deal up for disaster by not having his info straight from the getgo. I'd like to make sure I don't get involved with them. .

This^^^^

All other party's involved have said their piece . Lets hear from this Buyer.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

What an unfortunate situation. Now that the BATF is involved my humble guess is that a solution may not be all that simple and is likely to be painful for all three parties involved in some way.
All the same Penguin, thanks for letting us all in on this as it is a good learning experience that many of us will benefit from in the future.
I gotta still scratch my head over the companies response. How in the world do they expect to benefit in any way over that kind of thing is beyond me.

 

[Weebs]

This^^^^

All other party's involved have said their piece . Lets hear from this Buyer.

The buyer is unimportant in this matter. I would advise his name to not be posted because he is not the issue here. He paid for the gun, and was willing to pay for the transfer. No need for him to be drug down with this.

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

What an unfortunate situation. Now that the BATF is involved my humble guess is that a solution may not be all that simple and is likely to be painful for all three parties involved in some way.
All the same Penguin, thanks for letting us all in on this as it is a good learning experience that many of us will benefit from in the future.
I gotta still scratch my head over the companies response. How in the world do they expect to benefit in any way over that kind of thing is beyond me.

In all honesty the ATF is very helpful with FFLs. And every time i called them before betting my FFL they were very nice, professional, and helpful. Just because they are involved does not mean this will get nasty. Most likely they will return the firearm. they may even allow a non 4473 transfer back. You never know. Waiting to hear from them will be the hardest part.

 

[Trlsmn]

The buyer is unimportant in this matter. I would advice his name to not be posted because he is not the issue here. He paid for the gun, and was willing to pay for the transfer. No need for him to be drug down with this.

+1

If he wants to speak he is free to do so.

My take on this is that the FFL is free to legally transfer the gun to the rightful buyer anytime he wishes and that his own personal rules not the law are what is stopping this from happening.

You can throw thousands of words and he said, she said into the situation but when you boil it down to it's simplest form this is the case.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

UPDATE: I very friendly gentleman from the Pheonix, AZ ATF just called me and said he will be contacting the local FFL ASAP.

 

[ZachS]

 

[theLEMband]

Sorry you are going through this hassle. What a pain.
Maybe we need to make some type of checklist of the many different questions that need to be asked of FFL's/buyers/sellers before transferring firearms.
Another reason to remove government interference in a private transaction between individuals.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

The worst part is that I do not want to see the buyer screwed in this deal. he acted in good faith and made prompt payment. he does not deserve to be out a ton of money because a supposed professional that he trusted is such a pain.

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

I am surprised the FFL will not take a shipment from a non FFL. I guess maybe because i havent been burned yet that i am willing to do it. I cant see it being out of fear of receiving a stolen firearm. (i call all used guns in just to check)

Just seems like an odd rule, as that is one of the FFL functions in our current set up of laws.

 

[AWS44]

The worst part is that I do not want to see the buyer screwed in this deal. he acted in good faith and made prompt payment. he does not deserve to be out a ton of money because a supposed professional that he trusted is such a pain.

I agree! If i was the buyer I would demand MY gun from the FFL! If the FFL will not hand it over than i would call the cops and report it stolen wile standing in the FFL's shop!

 

[Trlsmn]

Sorry you are going through this hassle. What a pain.
Maybe we need to make some type of checklist of the many different questions that need to be asked of FFL's/buyers/sellers before transferring firearms.
Another reason to remove government interference in a private transaction between individuals.

Good idea! start a new thread for people to throw ideas and experiences out there and we will work on it then make a printable PDF checklist and sticky the thread.

 

[OPAWY]

Best of luck on this PBP. Sounds like you did everything you could. The FFL will learn a hard lesson, and he stands to lose a few customers. I know Playboy Penguin from another Forum, and he is truly a staight up standup guy!

 

[TonsOfOregonBrass]

I agree! If i was the buyer I would demand MY gun from the FFL! If the FFL will not hand it over than i would call the cops and report it stolen wile standing in the FFL's shop!

You might not get far with this. The FFLs job is to make sure no illegal transfers happen. All the FFL has to say is, I felt this was an illegal transaction. The seller is posing as an FFL and is not. (may not be the case, but doesnt mean it could not be said) The FFL most likely wouldn't be in any trouble. Probably would get a pat on the back by the ATF.

If everything is on the Up and Up then the ATF would say to proceed with the transfer.

 

[AWS44]

You might not get far with this. The FFLs job is to make sure no illegal transfers happen. All the FFL has to say is, I felt this was an illegal transaction. The seller is posing as an FFL and is not. (may not be the case, but doesnt mean it could not be said) The FFL most likely wouldn't be in any trouble. Probably would get a pat on the back by the ATF.

If everything is on the Up and Up then the ATF would say to proceed with the transfer.

Good point! I did not think of it in that way. I was thinking that the buyer new the FFL! If not my bad!