ND/AD from a Utah schoolteacher

[IronMonster]

There may be no excuse, but your still human. If you handle a firearm enough there is a reasonable chance at some point the universe will conspire against you. You may actually have zero fault, or you may be completely responsible. You do everything in your power to control the situation but sometimes its not enough. I had a friend in highschool who was shot in the back of the head by his brother while they where out duck hunting. Out of my three younger brothers two of them have been shot (same bullet, both brothers) those where not "accidents", they where negligent, someone made a mistake. And I would agree that all ND's are preventable, But that doesn't mean you could actually prevent all of them, why? Because we are human and not infallible. Highly trained and competent people make mistakes. Hopefully less often than untrained incompetent ones.

Are you honestly going to tell me you have never tripped? stumbled? dropped something? Never cut yourself, stubbed your toe? You don't have 100% control over every aspect of your body 100% of the time.


As a Range safety officer you have to have a zero mistake policy, I get that. I would not argue to keep that guy there who just fired a round into the floor at his feet. However no one is perfect. That guy who just fired a round into the floor may have a 100,000 rounds under his belt and have a 50 year perfect safety record (until now) And he is just as shocked as everyone else who is staring at him like he is the biggest idiot on the planet

 

[sdlsaginaw]

Sadly the answer, especially for a teacher, is "yes", you have to be perfect regarding your CCW.

No, it's not a realistic standard. But it's the standard the general public uses. They are the same ones who willingly strip, get patted down, and toss great grandads pocket knife in the trash at the airport because "it keeps them safe from terrorists" after all.

At the end of the day all we can do is try our best, identify avoidable mistakes and see if we're guilty of those same ones in our routine, and try to give the antis as few real events as possible so they have to keep making stuff up.

 

[decklin]

I can't agree with the "only human" sentiment. There is no such thing as an accidental discharge. It is always negligence involved.
If you carry a firearm you must be a professional and an expert with it. You must be perfect with it.
I have tripped. I have fallen. I have done it with loaded rifles and pistols in hand. I also maintained muzzle awareness and positive control of the weapon.
Every single person has the Right to self defense and the ability to choose their weapon.
With that Right comes the responsibility of proficiency. I don't believe in State mandated training. It is up to the individual to ensure appropriate training.

 

[mjbskwim]

They are not ADs they are NEGLIGENT discharges.
Pretty simple,yes you NEED TO BE PERFECT as soon as you decide to carry a gun,others lives depend on it.
Remember,NEGLIGENT discharge.Very few unwanted discharges are accidental
Now as a police officer,you must not become COMPLACENT with your weapon so you don't have NEGLIGENT discharges
Please don't sugar coat this issue with,"they need more training" or 'Are they supposed to be pefect when they get their concealed carry license ?'
Y'all know they need to be perfect for the time they are carrying or we will all loose the right to carry or own firearms

 

[IronMonster]

Of course you need to be perfect, You can try to be perfect, but of course you cant be perfect. You might be 99.999% but mistakes happen. Negligent simply means "Failing to take the proper care" so yes, all unintended discharges are negligent, still does not mean you can prevent 100% of them and you never will.

I get what your saying, but it still does not change the fact that you are not a infallible omnipotent god. All you can do is everything you can do and sometimes that's not good enough.

It has nothing to do with sugar coating, It has to do with reality.

If all you needed to do was try and do it perfectly then there would be no such thing as a negligent discharge as there is nobody who intentionally unintentionally discharges a firearm.

 

[mjbskwim]

It has nothing to do with sugar coating, It has to do with reality.

.

"WE" are sugar coating it when we say stuff to justify NDs,in any way.
As gun owners,we cannot afford to say anything to sound like 'It's just part of carrying a gun!'
Every time we do,it gives the antis more ammo.Then they can say,'look even gun owners say there may be NDs in public,we need to stop them from carrying!'
They use anything they can against us,so we need to treat these NDs as bad as they CAN end up.
So she(he?) just blew up a toilet,Idiot. But maybe next time the bullet goes thru the divider and kills someone.
What would any of us done had we been in the next stall? Besides be glad our pants weren't up?
And WTF happened that the gun went off from dropping it,anyway? Don't even try the glock BS cause that's what it is
I guess I'm trying to say we have to treat all of these very seriously so antis don't think it's just part of handling a gun.
Cause it doesn't have to be

 

[clearconscience]

I would have to agree that this is exactly what the anti's want is people having "accidents" with firearms.
She may have either tried to catch it or hurried to pick it up and hit the trigger. Eother way there are no accidents with firearms.
Just improper use, complacency, and stupidity.
We could all be better, all do something safer, etc.
I've had an ND. Just doing something without thinking and doing it to quickly.
Just like a motorcycle, you ride long enough and you'll lay it down.