Gunfire in the food court at Clackamas town center...

[andreys21]

My wife told me she was going to go to CTC on her way back from her job screenings at 3:20 but for some reason decided against it. I almost broke down when I heard that. I can't wait to find out who it was. I grew up in Portland/Clackamas and alway enter from the food court. This is too close to home for us.

 

[Rem725]

Holy Hammerli. I was there a couple hours before.

 

[Father of four]

My family and I go to that very theater at Clackamas Town Center Mall quite often. It is bad that the shooting/murders happened. It's bad that these types of things happen, but they do happen. They happen anywhere and can happen at anytime. It will happen again someday, sometime, but probably somewhere different the next time. Who knows?

Today with what happened at the Clackamas Town Center Theater should urge all Oregon Citizens to once again take a look and see what We The People believe the 2nd Amendment means to us. Is it there just for the militia to own and carry firearms? Is it there for the CHL holders to own firearms and with the special ability to carry firearms concealed in public? Is it for the non-CHL holders but they must open carry only or keep their firearms at home? Is it for all legal United States Citizens to own and carry firearms? What is the 2nd Amendment really there for?
I believe all legal citizens of our country should be able to own and carry firearms even in public to help protect ourselves, our family, our friends and also the public. I believe we should have the right to open carry or concealed carry the firearms at our own discretion. I do believe there are places where it is not appropriate to carry firearms but those places could be another discussion.

It is very bad that 3 unarmed people were killed. (As far as I know they were unarmed.) There could have been a whole lot more killed. Just look back at what happened at the James Holmes shooting in Colorado. He is charged with killing 12 people and injuring 58 others in a crowded theater in July. No one shot back at him with their own firearm to protect themselves. All those people that were there were just sitting ducks waiting to be killed. It seems that people in some states are taught that you should not be able to protect yourself or only the people who take a class, pay a fee and ask for permission are the ones who should be able to defend themselves from a crazed gunman like that one. All the others can run, hide, hope, pray...or die?

All the people in Oregon who have a legal right to own and carry a firearm, concealed or not, are at risk when something like that or what happened at Clackamas Town Center Mall happens again. It will happen again, but where? When? Will the next shooter try to kill just a few or we he try and take everyone out? If any CHL holders are there will they help defend and protect you if the LEOs aren't there? How would you know if any are even there? The CHL holders are not obligated to protect you. Nothing personal but they are not. Every legal citizen of the United States should be able to protect themselves. I believe the 2nd Amendment is a God given and Constitutional right and We the United States Citizens should not need to ask for permission to use it.

 

[rdb241]

If I had a nickel for every time someone miscategorized an AR-style rifle for a fully-automatic assault weapon....

It doesn't have to be true for people to lump it in with NFA weapons.

You can thank Bill Clinton and the media blitz in the 90's calling every gun they could an assault weapon. It is called mass psychology. You tell a big enough lie to enough people enough times it must be true. We all know that my semi auto military style looking AK is not by definition an assault rifle. But I can assault you with my little .22lr handgun.

On another note. I was in the Tacoma Mall a few years ago when a nut job there went off with an AK. The entire mall went into lock down. ALL of the steel chain like doors on all of the stores slammed shut. Which made it better for LE because now the shooter was trapped inside and could not get out. Plus all the people in the stores could not get into the very inside of the mall. The entire mall was evacuated through all the stores outside doors. It was a strange feeling hearing high power rifle rounds going off inside the mall. It is one of those things you will never forget.

 

[rdb241]

I wish he stopped it. Instead when the CC holder had the opportunity to shoot the "Bad Guy" he shouted drop the gun! The gunman promptly shot the CC holder several times leaving him permanently paralyzed. That convinced me right then that if you have to draw your weapon don't tell the shooter you are armed...just shoot

Tacoma Mall shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A link to the 2005 incident



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I agree that the guy should never had said a word and just pulled the trigger. Like my previous post, I was there when it went down but never saw anything. Just heard the shots.

 

[4Freedom]

The first thing I did when I read the news was call my parents to make sure they were alright.. My heart pounded when I read the shooting was in Portland, OR. I worried about those I loved. Now, I can only think how horrible it feels to those who lost people they loved. I have been to Clackamas Town Center many times, or at least nearby. I don't usually go to malls. Every time I sit in the Tacoma Mall's Food Court, I think about it.. That mall is so heavy on security, yet, in most cases, nothing can prevent taking down a maniac with body armor and a rifle than another person with the same configuration and better training and balls of steel. Remember, the maniac has one advantage, he doesn't care if he lives or die or kills innocent lives, but you care about your life and those around you.

My prayers go out to those who were killed, hurt and terrified by this vicious monster. Thankfully, it seems the monster had regrets after he saw his first few victims (some children) laying in pain and misery and decided to end his life. Thankfully, he had some remorse and did the world a favor or more could have died.

I am so sad and upset. I grew up in Portland and lived in Oregon most my life. I was just in Portland last week. I regret I could have not been there. I would have been glad to give up my life to attempt to stop this monster if I could have saved one child. Sad, how this happened in an area we would have considered "safe".

The government won't save or protect us. Their only solution is to ban guns. Guns or more or less already banned, hence why nobody could have stopped him. For all those who think their pocket gun or CCW would have been effective against a crazed maniac with an AR-15 and body armor with innocent civilians (including children) running all around them may want to take a reality check.

I wish words could express how I feel. All I feel is sadness and sorrow. First, for the innocent victims whose lives were lost, second for law-abiding gun owners who will now have their freedoms challenged by evil, conniving politicians who use events like this for their own selfish, unscrupulous means to strip people of their freedoms.


One message I want to get clear is 2,000 people were murdered in my grandmothers village in Belarus by orders of the German Nazi government. None of the people were allowed to own firearms for self-defense, orders of the Czar of Russia (the King at the time). Corrupt, totalitarian governments will always have a much higher murder rate of innocent civilians than all the homicidal murders ever committed in the last 100 years (or more) in this country. However, the media will never write a story about how the government massacres its civilians, rather it will feed the frenzy about how the citizens cannot be trusted. This is what totalitarian governments like.

 

[gaijinsamurai]

That this guy was experiencing mental illness is a given, if only today in the mall.

I gotta say I take offense to the characterization of mental health professionals. I would guess you dont know very many. At the same time everything you are saying is rooted in whats actually happening. The first reaction of two mental health professionals i know was that this guy was experiencing mental illness.

Even if this guy was actively engaged with mental health professionals, do you have any idea what it takes to take away a person's civil liberties and commit them against their will? Besides the legal hurdles, i would wager another 50 or so mental health clients "fall through the cracks" while multiple mental health professionals & LEOs spend hours coordinating the arrest and incarceration. Also, people with mental illness are not stupid, they can be conniving and manipulative and hide it from everyone for years or even their whole life. Remember Josh Powell? Did he have history? Did he have known mental health issues? His wife's parents noticed he was "off," and they moved mountains to try and expose him. Are they at fault for his atrocities? Surely Susan Powell knew he was f'd up, is she to blame too?

The mental health services in this area (and everywhere) are overburdened and underfunded, and each half of that equation is getting worse. More people are loosing it and they are loosing it harder. I blame the imbalance between the fairy tale we were all told to expect and the reality we are all living in now. The professionals themselves are overworked to the point of burnout and PTSD. Many have been reduced to little more than drones processing paperwork, not because they are stupid or lazy or uncaring, but because that is what is required by the system. The system has just become a factory churning out "safe for the public" crazy people. The wait list for people experiencing mental illness who are actively seeking help is measured in years. Most of our mentally ill are not even engaged in the system at all.

Every society has people with mental illness, and there have been various ways of integrating them. Our society is unwilling to execute or throw them in a dungeon anymore. But it is also unwilling to do what it takes to fully care for them. As a result there are terrible incidents, and then an outcry to do something. Something just enough to make us feel like we arent ignoring the problem, but not so much that we actually have to live any differently. Something just enough that next time we can throw it under the bus.

This afternoon something terrible happened. My prayers go out to all those who have been and will be scarred forever

x2, well said. I deal with mentally ill people on a daily basis, and can tell you the vast majority of the public has no idea how overburdened mental health resources are, or what it takes to hospitalize someone with an illness. It's like trying to clean up a spilled 55 gallon bucket of water with a small sponge.

 

[Sagaba]

Is it possible for watchdog groups to track signs of mass shooters? The knee jerk reaction will begin to say gun owners will need mental health evals. If that becomes the case, anybody who does not fall into to certain perscribed categories will be denied access to firearms (including YOU)...I don't see it playing out much different in the future. It's a perfect way to justify the total control of "assault weapons" in america. I believe in the 2nd A to it's core but there will be a point of a mass shooting so horrific (norway?) that many people who sit neither here nor there on the gun fence will call for their banning or complete control.

Personal input, I was shopping with my father less than 24 hours in the Sam Goody store in the tacoma mall in 2005 when the kid with the Mak-90 went nuts. That shook me up pretty good. Literally the same store he barricaded and took hostages in the next day. My thoughts go out to the folks who lost loved ones yesterday.

 

[orygun]

I was listening to the news unfold on "Mark and Dave" about an hour after the shooting started as I was on my way home. I was pleasantly surprised when one of them wondered aloud about how it ended. Was it the police, self inflicted, or was he stopped by a legally carrying citizen? That's the first time I've ever heard anyone in the media pose the possibility of a CHL holder acting in a positive way.

 

[davemata]

Obviously, the bad guy pulled the trigger. But the media wont ever let anyone forget him and he will become infamous because of the MEDIA

No one talk about Loughner anymore, or Ronald McDonald in CO.

No.

 

[davemata]

I wish he stopped it. Instead when the CC holder had the opportunity to shoot the "Bad Guy" he shouted drop the gun! The gunman promptly shot the CC holder several times leaving him permanently paralyzed. That convinced me right then that if you have to draw your weapon don't tell the shooter you are armed...just shoot

Tacoma Mall shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A link to the 2005 incident



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If you have to draw your gun on someone, and pause to exchange Dirty Harry-esque witticisms or "commands", then you just played a stupid game, and you might have just gotten a stupid prize.

Save that risk for the police, who are paid, and given toys on our dime to do that. Your job is to protect yourself and make sure you get home at all costs.

 

[RVTECH]

I sincerely hope this person is not known by any of us, or had membership in any gun related forum or other site.

 

[Mutoman]

Oh wow now they said this POS "Blended in" yeah right all while wearing a mask, bullet proof vest and toting an AR how stupid can ppl be what did they think it was a huge Call of duuty fan or something

Yeah, they don't know the difference between a guy toting a rifle around to shoot up a shopping mall and a guy toting a rifle around to show off his Second Amendment rights and test the police. I wonder why?

That being said, I wonder if the guy actually had the rifle out in the open. I would think the bad guy would want to hide the rifle until he got to the location so he could meet his goal.

 

[Norm0931]

I'll bet Floyd Prozanski is dancing right now. Do you think he asked them not to move the bodies so he could kiss them and carry them out himself? You know that bubblegum will use this in every way possible to take guns away from legal citizens.

 

[davemata]

Yeah, they don't know the difference between a guy toting a rifle around to shoot up a shopping mall and a guy toting a rifle around to show off his Second Amendment rights and test the police. I wonder why?

Not relevant and sounds like something from the Brady Bunch.

That being said, I wonder if the guy actually had the rifle out in the open. I would think the bad guy would want to hide the rifle until he got to the location so he could meet his goal.

Probably not, rifles are big but concealable with the right clothing. A trench coat or other long jacket and it's concealed. We should ban long jackets as a matter of course.

 

[Dave Workman]

High-powered hysteria in wake of Clackamas shooting

<broken link removed>


Nothing like a risk-free environment for nutballs....

 

[Mutoman]

Not relevant and sounds like something from the Brady Bunch.

Why? It's one thing to bash, yet another to have the intelligence to provide reason. Your choice.

 

[cueball1214]

One Reporter used the term " Military Style Weapon" Good job to the officer for correcting her.
From what i have heard the gun was stolen.
Missed the part about the shooter, i know they released his name but i am at work and was on the phone at that time.
No mention of motive at this time.

 

[BradleyOR503]

A very good reason to carry everywhere these days. I wonder how he got a rifle in without anyone noticing.. Hopefully accurate and reliable details will be out soon.
You would think even one person at the mall would have been conceal carrying. It's a shame that Oregon is too liberal to realize that one sane, trained, and responsible gun owner is enough to stop a threat from an armed mad men. Rome use to require their men to own swords and be proficient in it's use. If we still had that mentality these days this shooting could have been stopped as soon as it began.

 

[BradleyOR503]

Its easy to spot someone with anything bigger on their person. Even in a trench coat.. It would have only taken one observant person to probably see something amiss about this guy.
That's the problem these days... America is too relaxed. And most people are so preoccupied with their own lives that they don't even think to look and observe their surroundings.