Gunfire in the food court at Clackamas town center...

[coopone]

That's cause they probably are like washington square mall. Posted on backdoorsof mall.

 

[coopone]

I practice shooting on the move at Tri county practice pistol range. You can set up any scenario you want. I practice a lot of headshot and hostage covering half of perps body.
My dpsst shooting instructor was amazed that I could hit a silhouette head 12/15 shots at 35 yards. That's a 4"x"4 target...

 

[MinnesotaORnewbie]

possibly the advantage of knowing the sight of a jammed rifle and taking advantage and walk up behind, the shooter would not even be in the relm of knowing you were ever there, until the point second of a pistol to the BACK of the head, and in that instant second, he would find himself being Butt Fu#@ed by Saddam Hussein and Jeffery Dalmer in the firey layer of HELL

 

[FireArm]

I watched the first showing of "Killing Them Softly" at Clackamas Towne Center Theather and left at 2pm to pick up my daughter from her school. Got home just in time to catch this horrible act on the news. Hopefully the Mall can think of a creative way to remember the people who lost their lifes today.

 

[MinnesotaORnewbie]

I want to know Who Was there Legally Carrying and what stopped them from acting. I am not supporting self-filled policing, but if you were there, carrying, would you have the sense and knowledge to take action carefully but effectively

 

[WhyteCheddar]

Sweet JESUS, MARY, AND JOSEPH!!!! I was THERE at Clackamas Town Center today, and left just prior to the shooting!!! Holy PHLUCK!

Yes I was carrying at the time too. I don't care if I was armed, I am still very glad I was not there at the time.

I carry, but I don't want to shoot anyone, ever.

J was there too. Probably walked out just before 2pm.

 

[DFuller]

I was in a mall in Washington just a couple hours North of Portland when my wife called to tell me about this story. I assure you my situational awareness was up for the rest of my shopping.

Funny thing I have never seen a sign for a gun free zone at our local malls (of course I don't look to closely) and I will continue to CC when I go.

7 years ago in Tacoma Mall around Thanksgiving there was a mass shooting too. I believe there was one in SouthCenter mall in WA a few years later when some gang bangers shot at each other In a food court.

Holidays and Malls = good time to carry





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[ZigZagZeke]

Just curious, where do you guys practice taking head shots at moving targets with your carry guns at medium (10-20 yard?) ranges (never mind being in a heavily populated enclosed area during mass hysteria)? I shoot paper regularly, and I'm not bad at it, but I imagine there would be a 1000 variables to absorb within the span of a few seconds, and the last thing you want to do is miss and hit some innocent bystander. Personally, I have no training or practice for a situation like that, and I'd have to wonder what percentage of CHL holders do.

I would bet there were CHL holders there, and when the adrenaline took over, they made the best choice they could at the time.

And nobody would fault them for taking cover and waiting. On the other hand, the attitude that one needs training and practice for the specific situation at hand before one has "permission" to act is wrong, and it's why people stand by and watch bad guys kill others. Try Googling "Kitty Genovese". I don't know for sure what I would do in the given situation, but it's not beyond the realm of possibilities that I would engage the shooter. Especially if his attention is elsewhere and he's not moving around much. At close range it doesn't take a trained expert to hit a relatively stationary target.

 

[I-Shoot]

And nobody would fault them for taking cover and waiting. On the other hand, the attitude that one needs training and practice for the specific situation at hand before one has "permission" to act is wrong, and it's why people stand by and watch bad guys kill others. Try Googling "Kitty Genovese". I don't know for sure what I would do in the given situation, but it's not beyond the realm of possibilities that I would engage the shooter. Especially if his attention is elsewhere and he's not moving around much. At close range it doesn't take a trained expert to hit a relatively stationary target.

I agree with you for the most part, it's not a matter of permission though. It's just knowing one's limitations. I try not to have any illusions about how target shooting paper would translate to a live event. I hope I never find myself in that type of situation, but as someone who carries I have a certain responsibility to at least try and imagine it, as clearly, realistically, and practically as I can.

As far as training goes, when I had work I had no time, now I have time but no money. So the only "training" I have is in the holodeck of my mind, and I don't really think that counts.

 

[oknow]

I agree with you for the most part, it's not a matter of permission though. It's just knowing one's limitations. I try not to have any illusions about how target shooting paper would translate to a live event. I hope I never find myself in that type of situation, but as someone who carries I have a certain responsibility to at least try and imagine it, as clearly, realistically, and practically as I can.

As far as training goes, when I had work I had no time, now I have time but no money. So the only "training" I have is in the holodeck of my mind, and I don't really think that counts.

that counts more than what training the person that is thinking about shopping

 

[rdt]

That this guy was experiencing mental illness is a given, if only today in the mall.

I gotta say I take offense to the characterization of mental health professionals. I would guess you dont know very many. At the same time everything you are saying is rooted in whats actually happening. The first reaction of two mental health professionals i know was that this guy was experiencing mental illness.

Even if this guy was actively engaged with mental health professionals, do you have any idea what it takes to take away a person's civil liberties and commit them against their will? Besides the legal hurdles, i would wager another 50 or so mental health clients "fall through the cracks" while multiple mental health professionals & LEOs spend hours coordinating the arrest and incarceration. Also, people with mental illness are not stupid, they can be conniving and manipulative and hide it from everyone for years or even their whole life. Remember Josh Powell? Did he have history? Did he have known mental health issues? His wife's parents noticed he was "off," and they moved mountains to try and expose him. Are they at fault for his atrocities? Surely Susan Powell knew he was f'd up, is she to blame too?

The mental health services in this area (and everywhere) are overburdened and underfunded, and each half of that equation is getting worse. More people are loosing it and they are loosing it harder. I blame the imbalance between the fairy tale we were all told to expect and the reality we are all living in now. The professionals themselves are overworked to the point of burnout and PTSD. Many have been reduced to little more than drones processing paperwork, not because they are stupid or lazy or uncaring, but because that is what is required by the system. The system has just become a factory churning out "safe for the public" crazy people. The wait list for people experiencing mental illness who are actively seeking help is measured in years. Most of our mentally ill are not even engaged in the system at all.

Every society has people with mental illness, and there have been various ways of integrating them. Our society is unwilling to execute or throw them in a dungeon anymore. But it is also unwilling to do what it takes to fully care for them. As a result there are terrible incidents, and then an outcry to do something. Something just enough to make us feel like we arent ignoring the problem, but not so much that we actually have to live any differently. Something just enough that next time we can throw it under the bus.

This afternoon something terrible happened. My prayers go out to all those who have been and will be scarred forever

 

[ZigZagZeke]

As far as training goes, when I had work I had no time, now I have time but no money. So the only "training" I have is in the holodeck of my mind, and I don't really think that counts.

The closest thing I have to training for this situation is being on a tournament paintball team for several years and going through 2500 rounds a day a couple days a week. The targets were always moving and shooting back, and there wasn't time to use sights. I have no illusions that it's anything like a real firefight, but I notice the LEOs use it, so it can't be too far fetched as practice for this type of situation.

 

[MarkAd]

7 years ago in Tacoma Mall around Thanksgiving there was a mass shooting too.

A it was a CC man that stopped that attack.
xx

 

[DFuller]

A it was a CC man that stopped that attack.
xx

I wish he stopped it. Instead when the CC holder had the opportunity to shoot the "Bad Guy" he shouted drop the gun! The gunman promptly shot the CC holder several times leaving him permanently paralyzed. That convinced me right then that if you have to draw your weapon don't tell the shooter you are armed...just shoot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacoma_Mall_shooting

A link to the 2005 incident



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[sheepdip]

I disagree. We carry handguns because they are handy, easy to carry, but a rifle would be a better choice in every other respect. You get superior accuracy and less chance of over-penetration with an AR than most pistol rounds, both excellent qualities when fighting around innocents.

less chance of over-penetration with an ar than most pistol rounds? nobody else catch that?

 

[deen_ad]

Jeffery Dalmer

I thought it was Dahmer?

 

[andreys21]

My wife told me she was going to go to CTC on her way back from her job screenings at 3:20 but for some reason decided against it. I almost broke down when I heard that. I can't wait to find out who it was. I grew up in Portland/Clackamas and alway enter from the food court. This is too close to home for us.

 

[gunnails]

From an article quoting several witness to the Mall Shooting.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Gunman Kills Two People, Himself in Deadly Shooting at Oregon Mall - The Daily Beast

Carlisa Anderson was working at the Teavana store in the mall, sandwiched between Macy’s and Forever 21, when she heard a loud bang.

“I thought maybe someone dropped something,” Anderson, 26, told The Daily Beast.
Then came a dozen more bangs. She dropped to the floor, behind the tea counter— “It’s where you would duck if you were getting shot at”—and stayed put, even when a co-worker screamed out, “Oh my god, I see him,” she said. “I was not about to get up and look.”

Anderson thought about her boyfriend, she said. “How much I f--king love him, how much I wish he was there. He’s played a lot of Call of Duty and has a lot of knowledge about guns and what to do in a tight spot.”

She also thought, “No. 1 was, like, don’t move. So unpredictable. If he just decides to take a right-hand turn, this might be my last day.”

 

[oknow]

It's a fact, do your research.

+1

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Were you carrying? Do you have an Oregon CHL? If you don't want to answer, that's ok too.

Carrying my G33. Yes, I have permits.