UPDATE! Gottlieb v. Dudley - gunfight war of words

Dave Workman · May 16, 2014

Get out the popcorn!

Gunfight: War of words erupts; 'aid and comfort to enemy?'

A blistering war of words has erupted between the heads of gun rights groups in Colorado and Washington, with the first volley fired by the National Association for Gun Rights (NAGR), followed by yesterday's furious return barrage from Alan Gottlieb, head of two Bellevue-based organizations, whom NAGR had accused of "leading the fight for national gun registration" in a fund-raising e-mail.

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Caveman Jim · May 16, 2014

This ain't good for our cause, sounds like Dudley has taken up the legal weed!!!!!

8ball · May 16, 2014

Brown sounds like a piece of work.

He's a political terrorist and a modern-day charlatan who operates in the shadows and portrays himself as a supposed 'Christian,' but he uses the people naive enough to believe him and financially support him."

Dave Workman · May 18, 2014

St. Helens anniversary not the only thing erupting Sunday

Today's 34th anniversary of the Mount St. Helens eruption might be overshadowed by some fireworks on the radio as gun rights advocate Alan Gottlieb is scheduled to be the guest during the first hour of Tom Gresham's "Gun Talk" program, and gun prohibitionists are gathering in Bellevue for a strategy session.

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AMProducts · May 18, 2014

One of those things that's always fascinated me about politics how much it can bring stark contrast to the character of the individual engaged in it, and generally it's expressed in one of two ways: The statesman, harkening back to the founding documents of this country, where every attempt to consider the consequences was made before taking action. The polar opposite of this is the power broker, where the only litmus test that matters is strict adherence to the ideology of power and all ends justify the means.

What I do find interesting... was the article you linked to about Brown's "machine". While I find it's product abhorrent, and akin to an "Aryan Certificate" in terms of it's rigorous qualifications, to an extent, it's the method that is worth learning about.

Dave Workman · May 18, 2014

AMProducts said:
One of those things that's always fascinated me about politics how much it can bring stark contrast to the character of the individual engaged in it, and generally it's expressed in one of two ways: The statesman, harkening back to the founding documents of this country, where every attempt to consider the consequences was made before taking action. The polar opposite of this is the power broker, where the only litmus test that matters is strict adherence to the ideology of power and all ends justify the means.

What I do find interesting... was the article you linked to about Brown's "machine". While I find it's product abhorrent, and akin to an "Aryan Certificate" in terms of it's rigorous qualifications, to an extent, it's the method that is worth learning about.

Well, there are simply bullies in this game, and it's not an adherence to the ideology of power they demand, it's a strict adherence to THEIR ideology, which gives them power.

How many times have we been engaged in discussions on various forums, including this one, where — if one doesn't agree 100% with an internet thug — suddenly one becomes "a tool" (whatever the heck that means) or a "traitor" or some similarity.

That is internet demagoguery, and it is detrimental to a healthy debate. It doesn't attract like-minded people, it chases them away and marginalizes gun rights. Trust me on this, anti-gunners read these forums, looking for something they can use as an example of how crazy and extremist we all are.

Stomper · May 18, 2014

(Sigh)... In every arena of ideas their are always "those who would be king", and they'll say and do anything to prevail.

What's most irritating to me is they use "issues of the day" as a means for cover to further their own ends, often at the expense of those who strive to uphold a noble purpose.

That's those parasites within the system I was talking about in the other thread.

Three Bars · May 19, 2014

Being a member of NAGR I get their emails on a regular basis about issues in my state, Oregon.

Last year Dudley stated that State Senator Betty Johnson was cooking up some back room anti gun deals.
I have met Betty, and know her support for gun rights, but I contacted her anyway.
As it turned out there was not a sliver of truth to Dudley's statement.

Then, two months afterwards Dudley, again, sent another Email saying Sen Johnson was meeting with anti gun Senators and cooking up more back room deals.

I sent emails to Betty and once again not a thread of truth.
Sent three Emails to NAGR advising them of their two mistakes on both occasions....not a single reply as requested

Sen Johnson has been a staunch supporter of gun rights and without her the firearms climate in Oregon could well be much more oppressive.

As for Dudley Brown and company, I have decided to not renew my membership.
I will not belong to an organization that promotes falsehoods just to sensationalize an issue.

cascadianliberty2012 · May 29, 2014

Dudley sends a few too many emails... good God my inbox always has a bunch.

AMProducts · May 29, 2014

Dave Workman said:
How many times have we been engaged in discussions on various forums, including this one, where — if one doesn't agree 100% with an internet thug — suddenly one becomes "a tool" (whatever the heck that means) or a "traitor" or some similarity.

This is why I never understand people who start waving the conservative/republican flag every time the words "gun" and "control" are put together in the same sentence, republicans instituted the patriot act, and then followed it up with patriot II. As soon as the words "government" and "control" are paired together that's when I start getting a little itchy. Personally, the individual liberties (read gun rights) crowd has as much or more in common with the anarchist left than either is willing to admit, and those who immediately start waving a flag with a D or an R on it at the first hint of a values discussion.

As far as I'm concerned both political parties, and both ideologies both conservative and liberal have but one interest: power. I don't see either of them giving up any of it to any constituent as long as they are the only game in town.

The beauty of individual rights are that they distribute power instead of centralize it, the only dark side of this is it requires responsibility on the part of the individual, this is a challenge I think most would rise to if government gave them half a chance, but government is too busy saying "don't worry, we'll take care of that" but more and more, that's just lip-service and core government functions are being ignored to focus on control of the population.

Stomper said:
(Sigh)... In every arena of ideas their are always "those who would be king", and they'll say and do anything to prevail.

You know, if I was king I would have a big pit that I would kick people into. But it would only be people who had it coming. In the classic greek and roman sense, tyranny didn't have the same connotations it does today, it was just a form of government, no better or worse than the others.