This just in - military P320 shooting

[Lazyfaire]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1984625172423352749

View: https://x.com/jjreeves/status/1984625172423352749

Read More

 

[Lazyfaire]

Part 2

https://twitter.com/x/status/1984638916402823362

View: https://x.com/Mrgunsngear/status/1984638916402823362

 

[1911Fanatic]

That's why the P320 is such a great gun for personal defense….you can use the Baldwin Defense "I never even touched the trigger, it just went off!"

 

[RVTECH]

As far as I am concerned the two that lied got off WAY too lightly. Heck I have seen military members get more than what these two got for much less...

I see the Airman who pointed the gun and shot the guy already took care of himself....

 

[1911Fanatic]

As far as I am concerned the two that lied got off WAY too lightly. Heck I have seen military members get more than what these two got for much less...

I see the Airman who pointed the gun and shot the guy already took care of himself....

Really? He killed himself?

 

[Stomper]

Really? He killed himself?

Yes, yes he did.

 

[lucusloc]

Really? He killed himself?

Yeah, that was reported on earlier. I think it was mentioned a few times in the many P320 threads here.

That's why the P320 is such a great gun for personal defense….you can use the Baldwin Defense "I never even touched the trigger, it just went off!"

This is why the way the whole P320 kerfuffle was handled so badly, not just by Sig but by the gun community as a whole. Repeating unfounded accusations as if they were true, highlighting every last mishap with a Sig and ignore all other mishaps (falsely amplifying the "problem" with Sigs), not demanding concrete evidence of the issue (like what was demonstrated with the initial drop-safe failure) and accepting every "oppsie" as the gun's fault when there is other evidence suggesting otherwise. . . This was a massive failure of process by everyone. And that process failure gave cover to bad/stupid actors who thought they could uses the incorrectly amplified perceptions of the P320 as cover for their own misdeeds. In a few of these cases it may have even worked, as people are still arguing about the cause even as those cases have pretty solid evidence of mishandling.

This is why problem replication is so damn important. We run into this phenomena in the tech spaces too, with lots of people blaming all kinds of things for problems and failures. But until there is replication user error and improper procedures cannot be ruled out as the root cause. This is even more true with mechanical systems, which are often easier to fully understand by single individuals. It is also why I did so much testing and validation work on my own P320s, and attempted to not only replicate but understand the claimed failures supposedly being demonstrated online.

I have noticed a dip in the constant "here is another discharge with the P320!" I think the gun community as a whole is beginning to understand that the gun does not have a problem, but there are a subset of people who are not treating it with all due respect. This seems to echo the teething problems Glock had in the 80s, and while Glock's "self discharge" problems never really went away, the understanding of what caused those discharges certainly impacted how widely such incidents were reported. And now many people have the false impression that such discharges are rare when in actuality they are much more common than we all care to admit. Stupid is as stupid does, and stupid is still a universal constant, no matter what platform stupid has.

As went Glock, so now goes Sig.

 

[Lazyfaire]

Would've spent a long time in Leavenworth. Maybe it was a mistake, maybe it was just an accident, but pulling a trigger on a military base is long time trouble. Asking the other 2 to lie just compounded it all. At least this way it is all over. Except for the dead

 

[Lazyfaire]

Yeah, that was reported on earlier. I think it was mentioned a few times in the many P320 threads here.


This is why the way the whole P320 kerfuffle was handled so badly, not just by Sig but by the gun community as a whole. Repeating unfounded accusations as if they were true, highlighting every last mishap with a Sig and ignore all other mishaps (falsely amplifying the "problem" with Sigs), not demanding concrete evidence of the issue (like what was demonstrated with the initial drop-safe failure) and accepting every "oppsie" as the gun's fault when there is other evidence suggesting otherwise. . . This was a massive failure of process by everyone. And that process failure gave cover to bad/stupid actors who thought they could uses the incorrectly amplified perceptions of the P320 as cover for their own misdeeds. In a few of these cases it may have even worked, as people are still arguing about the cause even as those cases have pretty solid evidence of mishandling.

This is why problem replication is so damn important. We run into this phenomena in the tech spaces too, with lots of people blaming all kinds of things for problems and failures. But until there is replication user error and improper procedures cannot be ruled out as the root cause. This is even more true with mechanical systems, which are often easier to fully understand by single individuals. It is also why I did so much testing and validation work on my own P320s, and attempted to not only replicate but understand the claimed failures supposedly being demonstrated online.

I have noticed a dip in the constant "here is another discharge with the P320!" I think the gun community as a whole is beginning to understand that the gun does not have a problem, but there are a subset of people who are not treating it with all due respect. This seems to echo the teething problems Glock had in the 80s, and while Glock's "self discharge" problems never really went away, the understanding of what caused those discharges certainly impacted how widely such incidents were reported. And now many people have the false impression that such discharges are rare when in actuality they are much more common than we all care to admit. Stupid is as stupid does, and stupid is still a universal constant, no matter what platform stupid has.

As went Glock, so now goes Sig.

And then when one throws in that many shooters will lower the pull on their triggers accidents will happen that are not the fault of the gun, but operator error instead. I have 2- P250s and 4 P320s and have never had a problem. Always a first but so far, none.

 

[mhayd93]

I knew the initial story was complete BS when I first read it. I think anyone with an ounce of critical thinking probably also knew there was more to the story. The "uncommanded discharge" drama was a convenient smokescreen.

It's a shame what happened and it's a shame how quickly the sensationalist Sig haters jumped on this story demanding "justice." I'm not even a Sig Sauer fan, but the whole saga just made me disappointed to see how prevalent emotional decision making and the "guilty until proven innocent" mindset is in a large population of the 2A community.

 

[Medic!]

Damn you!


Stop trying to insert facts into my pre conceived notions!




320 bad, 320 bad, 320 bad, 320 bad..............................

 

[1775usmc]

The P320 doesn't just go off. And SIG still sucks.

For the longest time I thought there was something legitimately wrong with the gun itself. Now I realize that it's simply the wrong tool for the job.

 

[Koda]

And then when one throws in that many shooters will lower the pull on their triggers accidents will happen that are not the fault of the gun, but operator error instead. I have 2- P250s and 4 P320s and have never had a problem. Always a first but so far, none.

If it was a problem with the gun it could be replicated. With what like a million something in circulation that have not gone off vs the 80 or so alleged discharges that nobody can repeat with the same gun.

That said, I do think they should have at least a trigger tab.

 

[Medic!]

After years of experimentation I think I may have discovered a problem.

It takes less effort to pull the trigger on my 320 than any of my Glocks.



I know.

Earth shattering!

 

[mhayd93]

The P320 doesn't just go off. And SIG still sucks.

Yep, these are not mutually exclusive.

I like some of Sig's optics offerings, but have never cared for their firearms at all. I never got the hype for the P320, and the way Sig "won" the military contracts is ridiculous. It's even worse when looking at the M7 somehow steamrolling its way as the replacement for the M4. There is definitely something shady there that needs proper investigation.

 

[RVTECH]

The simple fact remains be it a Sig 320 or any other gun is the Airman violated two of the 4 basic rules of gun safety.

I didn't see any ages mentioned but MY take is relatively young Airmen, probably little to no gun experience outside of the military and according to the article, 'pointed the gun at Lovan's chest in a joking manner' tells me they were 'messing around' doing who knows what (AND probably 'playing' with their guns) but the bottom line is it APPEARS to be a case of little to NO gun safety being applied.

 

[Lilhigbee]

Where is our resident Glock apologist/Sig basher to tell us it's STILL Sig's fault??

 

[1775usmc]

Yep, these are not mutually exclusive.

I like some of Sig's optics offerings, but have never cared for their firearms at all. I never got the hype for the P320, and the way Sig "won" the military contracts is ridiculous. It's even worse when looking at the M7 somehow steamrolling its way as the replacement for the M4. There is definitely something shady there that needs proper investigation.

Yea the testing program was a load of sh!t. Some money exchanged hands behind closed doors and certain employment opportunities were guaranteed.

The CEO should have been thrown in jail for criminal acts but he paid his way through that too.

The P320 is fine but the company is shady AF.

I did enjoy talking sh!t about the P320. But everything has to come to an end. lol.

 

[DirectDrive]

Shame on those Youtubers that used the airman's death to forward their agendas.
I don't see very many apologies coming forward.
Maybe apology videos don't garner clicks ?

 

[400Whelen]

I think this is like the Toyota "stuck accelerator issue" AKA excuse for speeding. Back then I bought a brand-new Toyota Tacoma really cheap because I was the only person who drove on the lot for two days.

I wonder if I could get a great deal on a new P320?

400 Whelen

Ed