The forgotten ones

[Koda]

It was the first one I found not behind paywall, how many different sources would you like and is there a particular source you are more inclined to trust?


Instead of asking me maybe you should ask MIlton Freedman. he thought UBI was a great idea

Im open to any source ideally multiple sources. I'm not saying vox is wrong, I'm saying they are probably not telling the whole story. Bias by omission is lying. Their study cited 124 participants.... do you really trust that conclusive?

UBI funds will come from taxes. Whats it called when everyone is the same working class paid for by the government?

 

[P7M13]

Not everyone has boots P7M

Well, I guess they better get their sh1t together before winter comes. Perhaps try pulling themselves up by their toenails.
I have contributed tens of thousands of dollars directly and through charities, helping impoverished people. I know others on this forum who have done the same.
I have zero compassion for corner beggars.
Pick a corner that has a rotating crew of pan handlers. Keep an eye out for their managers, they're often not far away. This, I have observed at corners in Aloha, Beaverton and Portland.

 

[gmerkt]

Then I think, would I stand on the corner someplace, either in freezing rain or scorching sun, with my dog and beg for people's charity?

Well, panhandling doesn't have set hours. They can come and go as they please, they don't have to dress up to do it, and it's tax free. Those ideas kinda go along with the whole homeless thing, where some won't take shelter from agencies and charities when offered. Because it's structured, which some people avoid.

 

[monkeybutler]

Their study cited 124 participants.... do you really trust that conclusive?

What's the issue with the sample size?

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Im open to any source ideally multiple sources. I'm not saying vox is wrong, I'm saying they are probably not telling the whole story. Bias by omission is lying.

All the sources I could find tell the same story although a few of them have a pessimistic tone, but whatever. I'm not going to bother posting them because none of them really differ. If you can find anything that counters that article I'd be happy to read it

Whats it called when everyone is the same working class paid for by the government?

Last I checked, it was called the United Federation Of Planets

 

[Koda]

What's the issue with the sample size?

Too small.
They gave out free money, of course it improved some lives.
What does this solve?

 

[monkeybutler]

Too small.
They gave out free money, of course it improved some lives.
What does this solve?

Why is it too small?

 

[Koda]

Why is it too small?

Would a study of one person be too enough?

What does this solve?

Edit, how does a study of only 125 people prove it would work for every low income person in the country?

 

[monkeybutler]

Would a study of one person be too enough?

What?

There is nothing wrong with a sample of 124.

 

[Koda]

What?

There is nothing wrong with a sample of 124.

How does a sample of 124 ( in just one town) represent thecrest of that demographic for the country?

 

[Koda]

If you can find anything that counters that article I'd be happy to read it

Her's a small blip of a different perspective.

"But many see their finances drop back to previous levels, said Amy Beth Castro, co-founder and faculty director of the Center for Guaranteed Income Research, which is also studying BIG:LEAP and more than 30 other programs. Participants who do achieve a measure of economic mobility, she said, are those who already had concrete goals or plans."

These L.A. residents got $1,000 a month. What happened after the cash stopped?

In 2022, 3,200 people received monthly payments through the city of Los Angeles' basic income program. Here is what's happened a year after the program ended.

www.latimes.com

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

My opinion is that repeated cash handouts always become a problem. And consequence free misbehavior generally leads to more such behaviors.

Thus is the post I was replying to, the bold on "always" was not done by me, that is how it was written

Too small.

To me in this context any number any number greater than zero disproves the notion that it "always" is a problem

 

[monkeybutler]

How does a sample of 124 ( in just one town) represent thecrest of that demographic for the country?

If you want to critique thing like this, you might consider learning about sampling.

I frequently use samples smaller than 124.

 

[SpudBob]

Its been awhile since I jump into one of these "discussions" maybe since the Covid days. Heres my take and maybe things have changed. Iused to drive a route truck in a lower economic area of a large Northern Ca. City. It was very common to see the same people on the same corners for years on end. I have, even, seen fights over corner locations. This was a way of life for many of the panhandlers! Now Im talking about being on the same streets 5 days a week for over 15 years in a very large portion of a large city. I saw the same people by and large. They were coordinated and at the end of the day they would get picked up by a van and taken to a motel where they stayed and abused the drug of choice till the next day rolled around. My point is you dont know the true intentions of the person you give your money to. I found IF you want to help is to direct them to a Local shelter then GIVE your money to that shelter. That way there is at least a modicum of accountability.! Its not a perfect solution but its the one I use.The ones who carry gas cans I would offer to fill the can at a nearby gas station. NEVER had one taker! If you feel compelled to do something more immediate just buy them some food. Its difficult to trade food for drugs/Alcohol. I DID however have one incident that I bought a sandwhich for a guy who had a sign saying he was hungry. I then watched from a distance as he went into one of mny accounts and tried to exchange the sandwich for ciggarettes. How do I know? I asked my account later that day!

 

[Koda]

If you want to critique thing like this, you might consider learning about sampling.

I frequently use samples smaller than 124.

Is it anything like the sampling that said Trump would lose 2016, or the sampling that said the vaccine was safe and effective?

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Is it anything like the sampling that said Trump would lose 2016, or the sampling that said the vaccine was safe and effective?

Well, he did get less votes, he just got them in the right places, and the vaccine actually is safe and effective, so . . .

 

[Koda]

Well, he did get less votes, he just got them in the right places, and the vaccine actually is safe and effective, so . . .

Kinda like how we got 0.1% less votes for measure 114 but somehow that was supposed to make us safer. Or like the sampling that says you and I have a higher risk of committing suicide just because we own guns.

The J&J vaccine was not safe and effective, I would even argue both vaccines were effective. The govt lied to use about the safe and effective "sampling" on the J&J vaccine.

and masks...

Good lord I need to get a degree in statistics just to have an opinion.


So these UBI studies show how it has helped some people, but has any of them shown how it would end low income disparities? What happens if everyone got a UBI in the US, would that affect inflation and the economy?

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Kinda like how we got 0.1% less votes for measure 114 but somehow that was supposed to make us safer.

No? Those things have nothing to do with each other. The number of votes something gets has no effect on how effective or infective it would be and I never heard anyone in favor of 114 say that it did

Or like the sampling that says you and I have a higher risk of committing suicide just because we own guns.

So the study actually said you had a higher risk of committing suicide with a firearm if you owned a firearm (well, duh!) and that you had an increased risk of successfully committing suicide. So no, not a blanket increased risk of suicide in generaal

The J&J vaccine was not safe and effective, I would even argue both vaccines were effective. The govt lied to use about the safe and effective "sampling" on the J&J vaccine.

and masks...

Pointless to debate here because no one will change their minds and the topic is not within our "single topic" mandate.

Good lord I need to get a degree in statistics just to have an opinion.

Nah, just don't confuse opinion with statistics and you should be good to go

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Missed this one

So these UBI studies show how it has helped some people, but has any of them shown how it would end low income disparities? What happens if everyone got a UBI in the US, would that affect inflation and the economy?

If you're so concerned about that why don't you see what you can find out and share that with the rest of us.

 

[Koda]

So the study actually said you had a higher risk of committing suicide with a firearm if you owned a firearm (well, duh!) and that you had an increased risk of successfully committing suicide. So no, not a blanket increased risk of suicide in generaal

Not true at all. A gun isn't the catalyst that makes people commit suicide or increase your risk, thats a basic scientific fact. The studies are continually used as a blanket statement of increased risk of suicide in general. Maybe I might suck at understanding statistics but it baffles me how even adamant supporters of the 2A still believe the media narratives on gun control talking points.

Gun ownership is promoted as a blanket increase risk of suicide in general.

Having access to a firearm triples one’s risk of death by suicide.

everytownresearch.org

I'm sure someone will come along and claim they really mean success rate.