The eye burner 5000!

[VinnieBoomBah]

Split the difference….Tech 9 baby!

Not sure what they are smoking. . .

https://www.basspro.com/p/101913929

 

[lucusloc]

Split the difference….Tech 9 baby!

Slap a brace on that bubblegum and you have fully embraced the PCC trend as it exists today. They make pic adapters for the tail cap donchaknow. The future is the past is here now is. . . er, something like that. Tec 9s were ahead of their time, change my mind.

 

[coreymet]

just curious, how accurate are the Hi Point carbines?

.45ACP version - size of a fist at 50 yards using a red dot

 

[1911Fanatic]

Slap a brace on that bubblegum and you have fully embraced the PCC trend as it exists today. They make pic adapters for the tail cap donchaknow. The future is the past is here now is. . . er, something like that. Tec 9s were ahead of their time, change my mind.

I can't believe what the Tec 9's are selling for these days. I'd take a high point over one anyway, even though they're not "Ghettofabulous".

 

[Koda]

I think a Hi Point would be the perfect modern day "truck gun"....

 

[Alexx1401]

Not sure what they are smoking. . .

https://www.basspro.com/p/101913929

That is what happens when something is no longer made. Those were some of the early stuff the guy who made Kel-Tec had his hands in. I see one rarely and always at what to me is an insane price, but people will buy them who just have to have one

 

[gmerkt]

Yes a PCC can do well enough as a "duty gun" for a non-gun person. They work and pistol cartridges can still put down bad guys even if they are not exactly optimal for that. But there are better options out there, so I would only recommend a PCC for such use in special cases. A Hi-Point carbine could be one such case where cost was a significant factor. If you cannot afford better it is hard to go wrong with one of these.

I think the Ruger PC4 was originally marketed as a police duty gun. But time has shown us they weren't successful as intended. The police didn't much go for them. Instead, departments started adopting AR platforms. I don't have any knowledge of what 5.56mm ammo police have access to. What I do know is that there is military ammo made that is less apt to cause collateral damage from an AR, such as frangible projectiles. So I suppose there are police rounds along this line.

 

[lucusloc]

I think the Ruger PC4 was originally marketed as a police duty gun. But time has shown us they weren't successful as intended. The police didn't much go for them. Instead, departments started adopting AR platforms. I don't have any knowledge of what 5.56mm ammo police have access to. What I do know is that there is military ammo made that is less apt to cause collateral damage from an AR, such as frangible projectiles. So I suppose there are police rounds along this line.

Any decent .223 hollowpoint is going to be frangible enough to cause minimal collateral, that is why they are the default recommended home defense round (and the AR-15 has become the default recommended home defense platform) as well as deployment by basically every police department I know of (well, at least the ones not insane enough to use green tip as their general issue round). A decent .223 hollowpoint will penetrate building materials less than even pistol rounds or buckshot while still having excellent terminal performance in bad guys.

While PCCs do get better terminal performance from their (generally) longer barrels this still does not elevate them to anywhere near the energy delivery of even intermediate rifle rounds. They are still just slightly more powerful pistol rounds, and as we all know pistol rounds are a big compromise and generally suck at actually stopping people. This is why they were quickly dropped from police inventory in favor of more capable platforms that generally had similar size and form factor. Why take less when you can have more, and in a safer package to boot?

The one thing that PCCs still have over rifles is they can be made cheaper on the low end of the quality spectrum, while still giving you a decent little boots in utility over a pistol. Other than that they are a solution in search of a problem.

 

[P7M13]

God bless us, every one.

Dunno, the OP is in Hell on Earth. But hey - it's only money, right? (Devil rubs hands together, greedily).

if you do your part.

Problem is, few can and most don't.

TLDR: More accurate than you would think and comparable to other PCCs, but still sucks compared to a rifle of similar size/barrel length.

PCCs are never known for great accuracy, they are short range weapons that can struggle with pinpoint accuracy past 50 yards. The bullets, being pistol caliber, are typically short and fat, so dispersion is an issue no matter how well you tune the system. 2 MOA groups are a pretty standard top end to the class from a bench, and that opens up a lot with cheap ammo. "Keeping it on paper" is the basic benchmark when run-n-gunning, and while you can lob rounds out past 100 and try for hits, I would make sure you have a pretty big gong if you want those hits to be somewhat consistent. The nature of the bullets means that ~2 MOA group close in can disperse to 5-6 MOA at range. By the time you are out to 200 yards keeping every shot on a 16 inch gong is going to be pretty iffy, even if you put a magnifier on a 2 or 3 MOA dot.

But the Hi-Point carbines keep up with the best in the arsenal (for my 10mm collection that is a CMMG Mk 10 and a Stribog SP10). The 9mm and .45 collection show a similar pattern, with bench rest groups all keeping pretty close within each class. 9mm and 10mm have the tightest groups then the .45s take up the rear position. That makes sense when you look at the bullets, and I cannot imagine the 9mm and .45 versions of this gun will perform any worse. And of course this is all FMJ, I am sure if you put fancier HPs in there it would not get any better due to the even worse BC and dispersion characteristics of those profiles. I shoot mostly whitebox ammo out of mine so I expect ~3 MOA or worse at 50 yards, but with the close ranges these operate at that is not really a big deal. Remember, 3 MOA at 50 yards is still only a one and a half inch group, which is well within the 6 inches of a typical A zone.

I have not put it on a bench but the Hi-Point 1095 can keep all the rounds in the A-zone off hand out to 25-30 yards or so as long as I do my part and am not dumping rounds at top speed. With a little care I do not think it is any less accurate than the rest of them. The recoil impulse is significantly worse than anything delayed, however, so the faster you shoot the more your groups are going to open up. That is the big difference here, as I can keep the CMMGs, Stribog and AP5 more on target at faster rates of fire than any of my direct blowback carbines regardless of cartridge. This is just physics, so no amount of training is going to make this better, the delayed actions are just nicer to shoot period. And when the paradigm of your platform is predicated on volume of fire this matters, and I consider this the biggest factor in accuracy on any PCC. As far as I am concerned single shot accuracy is only important for cartridges that can deliver enough energy in that one shot. PCCs do not do that so fast follow up shots are every bit as important as first shot accuracy. The Hi-Point (as well as any other direct blowback platform) really suffer here, and you have to slow down quite a bit to get accurate follow up shots, comparatively speaking.

I have also tested this with really nice optics with fine dots and super clear glass and while they are subjectively slightly better than the cheap Pan AV clone I have dedicated to this build I do not think optic quality makes that big a deal on these types of platform. Get a 2 or 3 MOA dot, aim for direct center and hope for the best. If you do your part all the rounds will land close enough to count. The only thing better optics get you is durability, and that only really matters if you want to use the gun for real. I think the Hi-Points are perfectly adequate for a non-enthusiast to use as a bedside gun as they are more than reliable enough for the task, but I think anyone who wants a true duty grade firearm will be better served looking elsewhere simply because of the better ergos and recoil mitigation higher quality guns bring to the table. Hi-Points are bare-bones and minimum viable functionality, best kept to across the room distances if things get serious. If you ever actually need to hit a man-sized target out past 100 yards with this platform you might want to seriously reconsider the life choices you made to be in that situation with that gun, because there is probably quite the story to tell there.

How durability and barrel life affect things is another question entirely, and I cannot speak to that at all with any of my platforms. I simply do not shoot them enough, nor do I know of anyone doing burn-down tests on PCCs, let alone 10mm PCC trash builds. I cannot imagine barrel life will be a problem though, these are straight-walled low pressure cartridges after all, they are probably not hard on barrels or actions. The springs seem pretty beefy, and the action is a solid block of pot metal so I doubt there will be any reliability issues long term. The thing is a massive PITA to tear down, so I probably will never do that again. Once was enough for me, and I just dump solvent and lube into the action when it needs to be "cleaned". Even if the barrel does burn down or the action wears more rapidly than higher quality counterparts the question is if anyone would actually notice. I am just not sure if it really matters for the use case.

Anyway I think baby boy has finally nodded back off to sleep, so I am going to attempt to do likewise. Having a new kid really kills the rem cycles.

I was chuckling at the comments, especially @Tlock's reference to A Christmas Carol. Then you had to go and write Treatise on Pistol Caliber Carbines. At least you warned us! Thank God for Jr's sleep....

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Hi points get a lot of hate. I'm sure this one will be no different. I'm done with "purpose driven" and "use case" projects. Those projects/builds are complete for the time being….now it's time for some silly ideas and shenanigans to happen!

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You're right. They do get a lot of hate. Not nearly as much as they deserve though.

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• ilikegunspdx
• Aug 26, 2024

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• ilikegunspdx
• Aug 15, 2024

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Hi-Point firearms....

Not for me.
I like my firearms to be nice to look at...have some style and beauty.
Firearms are much more that tools to me.

That said...
I understand that they work...and work well. ..and are durable.

However...
If given a choice of a Hi-Point...or not owning any firearms at all...
I would be firearm free....

Now please note that I am not bashing Hi-Point firearms...or their owners...
Please notice the I statements in the above....

I don't care for Hi-Point firearms...others do.
And neither of us are "wrong"....so to speak.
Andy

 

[Tlock]

Hi-Point firearms....

Not for me.
I like my firearms to be nice to look at...have some style and beauty.
Firearms are much more that tools to me.

That said...
I understand that they work...and work well. ..and are durable.

However...
If given a choice of a Hi-Point...or not owning any firearms at all...
I would be firearm free....

Now please note that I am not bashing Hi-Point firearms...or their owners...
Please notice the I statements in the above....

I don't care for Hi-Point firearms...others do.
And neither of us are "wrong"....so to speak.
Andy

Send me your address.....ill send a couple yeet cannons for your upcoming birthday!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

@Tlock
Damn man....I thought we were friends....
Andy

 

[Tlock]

@Tlock
Damn man....I thought we were friends....
Andy

Haha!!! I would expect to get blocked for life by ya

 

[lucusloc]

Problem is, few can and most don't.

For longer ranges I would agree, but for the ranges that PCCs operate at it is pretty trivial, especially if you open up to just C zone hits. ~12 inch groups at ~50 yards (or ~24 MOA) is where some new shooters start, so it is a pretty decent benchmark for a minimum proficiency. With three points of contact and a red dot I would expect any shooter to be able to consistently achieve this with minimal instruction.

I was chuckling at the comments, especially @Tlock's reference to A Christmas Carol. Then you had to go and write Treatise on Pistol Caliber Carbines. At least you warned us! Thank God for Jr's sleep....

Yeah, when all you have as your muse is a fussy little guy topics tend to expand to fill the space. This was over an hour of writing, baby cuddling, rocking to sleep, more writing, more fussing. . . It probably needed another draft or two, but that would require some very definite non-baby time to do right. I'll file it away for the next PCC thread.

 

[P7M13]

Hi-Point firearms....

Not for me.
I like my firearms to be nice to look at...have some style and beauty.
Firearms are much more that tools to me.

That said...
I understand that they work...and work well. ..and are durable.

However...
If given a choice of a Hi-Point...or not owning any firearms at all...
I would be firearm free....

Now please note that I am not bashing Hi-Point firearms...or their owners...
Please notice the I statements in the above....

I don't care for Hi-Point firearms...others do.
And neither of us are "wrong"....so to speak.
Andy

Andy, your preferred firearms are a pipe, some complex lock thingy, and a gussied up piece of wood. For folks who like Bauhaus or Neo-modern architecture, *your* favorites are like Hi-Points.

 

[Buddy1211]

You're right. They do get a lot of hate. Not nearly as much as they deserve though.

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• ilikegunspdx
• Aug 26, 2024

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• ilikegunspdx
• Aug 15, 2024

View attachment 2218703

Hey! I saved like $37 buying it used hahahah

 

[MannyGlocks]

Is an "undercapitalized person" the same as: 'po folk'?

Oy Vey!!

Such 'woids'...said in my best Jackie Mason voice.

 

[po18guy]

Anyone have a Hi-Point AR?

 

[Tlock]

Anyone have a Hi-Point AR?

Gross.....