Some truth from Tom Gresham

Discussion in 'Firearm Legislation & Activism' started by Jerry, Nov 18, 2018.

Tags:
  1. Jerry

    Jerry
    Vancouver, WA
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    526
    Motivation and Commitment

    It’s time for a “Come to Jesus” talk in the gun rights world, and it’s not going to be pleasant. I have something to say, and it won’t take long.

    It’s time to review our and your motivation and commitment. We just lost an important fight in Washington state when I-1639 was voted in by the public. This repressive measure puts into place a number of restrictions, from increased age limits to buy a gun, to branding semi-auto squirrel rifles “assault weapons” and making it more difficult to buy them.

    These same restrictions are being introduced into every state legislature and into the U.S. Congress.

    Each of us must do a serious review of our motivations on gun rights. We have to review and reflect on our level of commitment. Here’s why.

    We are losing.

    We are losing our rights in state after state. We are losing in the courts. (This may change with the new November%2015%20Tom%20Pic.jpg Supreme Court, but don’t count on it.) We are the good guys. We don’t commit crimes. Yet we are being branded as the crazies just because we like to own and shoot guns responsibly.

    Make no mistake. We are losing, and it’s because so many gun owners are on the sidelines. Sure, they are cheering on the NRA, but they won’t take a day off work to go the state legislature. They won’t write a check for $100 to the NRA each year. They have never actually called or emailed a politician about gun rights. That’s a guaranteed recipe for failure.

    What’s amazing about this is that it’s just so easy. Join the NRA. Sign up a family member. Right now. Give five NRA memberships as Christmas gifts.CLICK TO JOIN

    Oh. You don’t like the NRA? Well, suck it up, Buttercup, because that’s where the fight is, and if you aren’t there, you are AWOL. Pull up your Big Boy pants and get on board.

    The Second Amendment Foundation does a great job in the courts, and I encourage everyone to help out with memberships and donations, but we simply don’t have any more time to screw around. Billionaire bucks are shifting the tide. We. Are. Losing. Even SAF says you should support the NRA. CLICK TO JOIN SAF

    And please spare me with the “we are the real no-compromise lobby” groups. Nonsense. Ineffective. A waste of your money. It’s like peeing on yourself while wearing dark pants. It gives you a warm feeling, but no one notices.

    So-called “red flag” laws passed in states are sending the police to pound on doors, to take away guns after a family member, educator, or someone, makes a complaint. Just last week that resulted in the police shooting and killing a man in his home in Maryland. They are passing laws which make it possible and legal for the police to come take ALL your guns.

    Where are you? What’s your level of commitment. Time and money. That’s it. Time and money.

    I know we are at a tipping point. If millions of gun owners don’t get motivated and fully committed right now, we will continue to lose, and trust me when I say that these measures being passed will never be repealed.

    If you are not in the fight, we will lose. ~ Tom

    Tom Gresham
    Author, outdoorsman, gun rights activist, and firearms enthusiast for more than five decades, Tom Gresham hosts Tom Gresham's Gun Talk, the first nationally-syndicated radio show about guns and the shooting sports, and is also the producer and co-host of the Guns & Gear, GunVenture and First Person Defender television series.

    For more news like this, subscribe to Gun Talk Media's Newsletter here: http://guntalk.com/newsletter
    © 2018 Freefire Media, LLC. All rights reserved.


    Read
     
    Slobray, NW Backpacker, ron and 5 others like this.
  2. justcuz

    justcuz
    tri-cities
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    420
    Forgive my objection to the august Tom Gresham’s emotionalized and obviously biased, yet impassioned plea for $$$$ to NRA or SAF - after the fact mind you!

    These are not start up nor fledgling grassroots pro firearm entities, these entities are long established and this year’s initiative debacle didn’t sneak up out of the blue on this state any more than initiative 594 did. In fact, the initiative process has been in place since the early 1900s and only abused in the last 10 or so years.

    This tug on sympathy strings is nothing but B$ To raise money and will not help this state’s gun owners from this recently passed initiative any more than it will help against 594’s B$ as these nationally recognized pro legislative entities are truly well funed as well as should be well versed to deal with this from a PR perspective to pursuing judicial remedies.

    This Gresham’s plea is similar to citizen’s being told to give to the ARC after a disaster. The problem is the ARC does not nor cannot do anything to help those affected by disaster for home repairs or after the initial period of the disaster.

    Most US citizens are unaware of the following, quote:
    When a devastating earthquake leveled Haiti in 2010, millions of people donated to the American Red Cross. The charity raised almost half a billion dollars. It was one of its most successful fundraising efforts ever.

    The American Red Cross vowed to help Haitians rebuild, but after five years the Red Cross' legacy in Haiti is not new roads, or schools, or hundreds of new homes. It's difficult to know where all the money went. Unquote
    In Search Of The Red Cross' $500 Million In Haiti Relief

    As this member has repeatedly stated, everyone is attempting to reduce the symptom(s)/end result and not the actual root cause coupled with the antis big $$$ backers abusing the initiative process in both WA & OR.

    IMHO, Mr. Gresham should be ashamed of using his renowned name for a blatant shock and awe emotionalized fund raiser!
     
    alv7722 likes this.
  3. Shootshellz

    Shootshellz
    Edmonds
    Member

    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    6
    Just to clarify your position, do you believe the pro firearm side is winning? And how, exactly, does the ARC directly compare to the NRA? What was the 'actual root cause' of I-1639 passing? And how does an entity 'abuse' the WA initiative process when signatures on initiatives are strictly voluntary and plenty of initiatives with big $$$ backers have failed to gather enough signatures? And finally, do you believe the battle to defeat I-1639 will take plenty of money or less money?
     
  4. alv7722

    alv7722
    Merlin, OR
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    566
    I've been crying about this for more than a year on this forum. Usually get threatened to be banned. 40,000 members here, 114,000 on Oregon Firearms Advocates FB page, and NO actionable calls to action. There should have been 154,000 letters to the editor of newspapers. I don't know what to do for WA, but we still have a chance for OR. Kate Brown is horribly corrupt. If we make our voices heard to the FBI, and the US DOJ, it is likely she can be forced to resign. We would get Dennis Richardson, a Republican, for Governor. Richardson has been battling cancer. Kate has even gone to the trouble of having some of her Communist goons register as Republican, so she can appoint one of them for SOS if he succumbs to his cancer. BO and the US DOJ were instrumental in forcing Kitzhauber out. So, in a sense, Kate was an Obama appointee.

    The FBI website specifically states that "state corruption is a valid reason to contact the FBI". I can post a bunch of links about her corruption if the owner would agree to make them a 'sticky'. Else, I just have to keep posting over and over. Getting her removed would be much cheaper than a bunch of court battles. It could give us time to "organize", which seems a dirty word for gun owners. Thanks.

    This IS NOT Partisan. We are in a battle against bona fide Communists. (ok, "democratic socialists") Support of the US Constitution, is NOT PARTISAN!! It is NOT a threat to the 501c3 status.

    Any in Walden's district might query him about requesting the FBI. Any that have Rep representatives, or senators, also.

    Might not work, we have no way to know, if we don't make the effort.

    In case nobody realizes it, we are not longer in a fight for our guns!! We are in a fight for our Country. We are on the front lines, and need to start acting like it!
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
    Taco_lean, bbbass and NW Backpacker like this.
  5. WasrNwarpaint

    WasrNwarpaint
    Portland
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,028
    Likes Received:
    2,729
    You make it sound like the pro gun voters had a chance in washington, a bastion of the retarded leftist

    how is an entity supposed to file a suit over 2nd amendment infringement.......when the liberal progressive voters had not yet voted to infringe upon our rights and the constitution?

    After the collective leftist had voted to infringe upon "our constitutional rights" is when the fight to defend the second amendment begins....we are outnumbered on the West coast and it was inevitable but procedures must be followed...WHEN YOU CANT OUT VOTE THE OPPRESSORS
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
    bbbass, NW Backpacker and Caveman Jim like this.
  6. justcuz

    justcuz
    tri-cities
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    420
    I apologize my analogy was miscommunicated...as the ARC is unable to articulate where the contributed $ 500M went for the Hatiti relief went, the financial contributions to NRA & SAF are also kept oblique from JQCitizens on when they are spent.

    I shan’t regale you with my previous commentary on the history of WA & OR’s initiatives and how big money is slew’g the initiative process to advance their own agenda.

    Sorry defeat is not an options per the establish constitutional process as it cannot be changed for three years and is in fact statutory law!
     
  7. justcuz

    justcuz
    tri-cities
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    420
    Judicial interventation is done prior...per

    Quote: Within five days of the filing of a ballot title or summary with the secretary of state, any person may challenge the ballot title or summary. Similarly, within five days of the determination of sufficiency for signature petitions, any citizen may challenge the signature count. Moreover, if the secretary of state refuses to perform a signature count and rules the petition insufficient, the persons filing the measure may challenge the decision within 10 days. All of these challenges should be filed in the Thurston County Superior Court. The decisions of this court may be appealed to the Washington supreme court.

    DocumentIcon.jpg See law: Revised Code of Washington, Title 29A, Chapter 72, Section 080 ; Section 180 ; Section 190 and Section 240

    Unquote.
     
  8. Caveman Jim

    Caveman Jim
    Fish killer....
    Kokanee Slayer Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer 2017 Volunteer

    Messages:
    12,439
    Likes Received:
    32,555
    Anyone remember back when Tim Imen was leading the charge for $30 car tabs?

    We the people passed it and the state fought it tooth and nail for years in the courts. Then after a few years they started adding more BS taxes like a GVW excise tax to cars!!!

    This liberal powered taxing and rights demolishing train needs to be derailed!!!
     
    Slobray, bbbass and NW Backpacker like this.
  9. BSG 75

    BSG 75
    Oregon
    Platinum Supporter Platinum Supporter

    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    641
    Challenging these laws in the courts is expensive, no matter how "well funed" [sic] gun rights organizations are.

    The American Red Cross doesn't act primarily through litigation. Red Herring logical fallacy, false equivalency, and irrelevant.

    That isn't the only form of legal challenge. "Interventation" [sic] is most often done after a law has been passed, when plaintiffs who have standing have been identified. And guess who is challenging I-1639? The NRA and the SAF, the very same organizations that you refuse to support. Washington - I-1639 Lawsuit filed

    Don't worry, the rest of us will keep supporting the organizations fighting for our rights, to make up for the freeloaders and dead weight who will benefit from successful challenges even though they didn't contribute even a few round-up cents to help. You're welcome.
     
    Caveman Jim, bbbass, Jerry and 3 others like this.
  10. justcuz

    justcuz
    tri-cities
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    420
    Sorry BSG75 by WA initiative guidelines as established by RCW Title 29A, Chapter 72, Section 080 ; Section 180 ; Section 190 and Section 240 and overseen by the Sec of State, interventation(s) (sic)

    Within five days of the filing of a ballot title or summary with the secretary of state, any person may challenge the ballot title or summary. Similarly, within five days of the determination of sufficiency for signature petitions, any citizen may challenge the signature count. Moreover, if the secretary of state refuses to perform a signature count and rules the petition insufficient, the persons filing the measure may challenge the decision within 10 days. All of these challenges should be filed in the Thurston County Superior Court. The decisions of this court may be appealed to the Washington Supreme Court.

    Unfortunately, it appears 1639 was challenged and the good standing attorneys presenting their case to the courts couldn't in three lawsuits filed at the appropriate times convince the State's highest court the initiative violated the anything!

    Three lawsuits were filed against the initiative: one lawsuit filed by the National Rifle Association (NRA) challenged the ballot title and summary, which resulted in the title and summary being re-written. Another lawsuit that sought to keep the initiative from securing a place on the ballot was dismissed. A lawsuit was filed shortly after the initiative was certified on July 27, 2018 alleging that the ballot language and petition format did not meet statutory requirements and, therefore, that the obtained signatures were invalid and the measure should be stricken from the ballot. On August 17, Thurston County Superior Court Judge James Dixon ruled in favor of the NRA, removing the measure from the ballot. The Alliance for Gun Responsibility, proponents of the initiative, filed a notice of appeal with the Washington Supreme Court. On August 24, 2018, the Washington Supreme Court reversed the lower court's ruling, allowing the initiative to stay on the November 2018 ballot.

    Sorry once again BSG75, et al., 1639 has passed and is now the law of the land per the Washington Constitution, Article II, Section 1, no initiated statute may be amended or repealed for two years without a two-thirds super-majority vote in both chambers. Any initiated law, so amended, is not subject to veto referendum. After two years, the law may be repealed or amended by a simple majority vote of the legislature.

    So BSG75, pray tell how well did the national gun organizations do after the fact of 594?

    Pray tell, BSG75, why on earth do you and others expect anything different this time around?

    Please continue to support the national NRA's ILA component...I am personally assured your WA state contributions will fund someone's paycheck in the organization.

    [thanks for finding my typeing errors left or the grammerists in the group and it is truly a delight to see who bit:rolleyes:]
     
  11. 44Brent

    44Brent
    Olympia
    Active Member

    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    154
    I reject justcuz's viewpoint 100%. Tom Gresham is right.

    I sent money to SAF this multiple times this year and will continue to do so in the future. Anyone who is opposed to SAF and NRA's actions in opposing I-1639 is not a friend of mine.
     
  12. justcuz

    justcuz
    tri-cities
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    420
    44Brent, that is one of the greatest things about this country we live in...you are free, within judicial statutory limits, to do and say as you please as well as spend your hard earned $$$ absolutely anyway you want to.

    Oh as well as free to discern who is your friend(s)!

    It is also so good 44Brent, other citizens of this great Nation, with minor exceptions extended to prisoners etc., also have the same mutual freedoms bestowed and granted to them, as well as to me, now isn't it friend!
     
  13. BSG 75

    BSG 75
    Oregon
    Platinum Supporter Platinum Supporter

    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    641
    Apparently, you don't understand that legal challenges can be filed several times when an initiative is proposed or passed, or after a law is passed. Those court challenges are not prevented by the irrelevant code you keep quoting about the legislature not being able to repeal a law.

    The Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975 - Wikipedia was a law...until it was overturned by the US Circuit Court for DC, and the Supreme Court of the United States in District of Columbia v Heller.

    Apparently you fail to realize that Chicago's handgun ban was a law...until it was overturned by the Supreme Court of the United States in McDonald v Chicago.

    California had a law outlawing Internet sales of handgun ammo...until it was overturned in court CA Court Strikes Down Online Ammo Ban - The Truth About Guns

    More recently, Hawaii had a law against open carry...until it was overturned in court Young v. State of Hawaii Appeal 12-17808 – Won! – En Banc Petition Filed on 9-14-2018

    And another court blocked enforcement of California's ban on "high capacity" magazines 9th Circuit upholds injunction that temporarily halts California gun magazine law from going into effect

    Notice that these court cases overturned or blocked gun control laws in very blue, pro-gun control areas - DC, Chicago, Hawaii, and California - where there is no hope of gun rights advocates winning in the legislature or at the ballot box. Court challenges to existing laws can be made, can be successful as listed above, and are the ONLY recourse gun rights supporters have in blue, pro-gun control cities and states.

    The NRA and SAF have filed a lawsuit challenging I-1639 Washington - I-1639 Lawsuit filed If the legal challenge is successful you will benefit, even though you did less than nothing to help.

    Those court challenges can take years, involve thousands of billable lawyer hours, and are expensive. If you are too cheap to chip in and help with the effort, just say so. You don't have to rationalize your stinginess. The rest of us will do what we can without you and others who think like you do, and you will still benefit if the legal challenges are successful.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
    Caveman Jim, bbbass and Lilhigbee like this.
  14. justcuz

    justcuz
    tri-cities
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    420
    you are absolutely right BSG75...but how long were the laws in place before someone decided to place themself(ves) into a case test?

    humm, review of the FCA established 1975 on wiki states, quote: On June 26, 2008, the Court determined that the ban and trigger lock provision violate the Second Amendment. However, the ruling does not prohibit all forms of gun control; laws requiring firearm registration remain in place as does the city's assault weapon ban !

    First and foremost the national gun organizations as mentioned did institute judicial challenges per WA statutory mandates...let's see didn't like the titles wording...and so forth...which were unsuccessful, and after the fact challenges towards 594 after it was passed...please tell the membership how well did tactic work?

    as stated...Mr. Gresham's plea is strictly a shock and awe geared towards fund raising activities in the Evergreen state and while i have not done further research, I would wonder if the same letter has been modified to be used in other states as well. ah something to do this evening...
     
  15. BSG 75

    BSG 75
    Oregon
    Platinum Supporter Platinum Supporter

    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    641
    The election was November 6 and the challenge to I-1639 was filed November 15. Nine days. That isn't fast enough for you? And the law hasn't even gone into effect yet.

    Using a less than 100% success rate of legal challenges as an excuse and rationalization for not contributing to the organizations filing the challenges, especially the Second Amendment Foundation (I'm a Life Member) that is based in Washington State is just that, an excuse and rationalization. Not all legal challenges will be successful, especially after 8 years of President Obama nominating the judges who are hearing the cases. But in case you haven't noticed, the makeup of the judiciary is being slowly transformed under President Trump, up to and including the makeup of the Supreme Court of the United States. The success of challenges to gun control is likely to improve the next several years as Trump reshapes the judiciary. Would you prefer no legal challenges to gun control laws were filed?

    Keep your money, we'll press on without you. Freeloading gun owners who contributed nothing to the legal challenges will still benefit if we are successful.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  16. justcuz

    justcuz
    tri-cities
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    577
    Likes Received:
    420
    Sorry BSR75, the song janet jackson sang is quite apropos concerning where citizens just blindly donate $$$ to institutions which don't do anything but spin their wheels and spend the money, BTW the song's title is "what have you done for me lately."



    Tis quite the shame you have all the excuses these national organizations present yet fail to actually see the scam being perpetrated, who is the NRA rep in WA, have you asked, have you asked for an accounting where the NRA's ILA or SAF or let's make it more community orientated...your local grassroot's entities where the funds go they collect.

    better yet BSR75, ask these august groups of the tactics to be used for the challenge! Last I heard from SAF was "i don't know...!"

    To clear the air here so you are not just of the opinion i am only against SAF/NRA/Grassroot...ANY entity which collects money, moms, Run for the cure, ARC, Salvation Army, ad nauseam, and doesn't provide an accounting of their expenditures to income is suspect.

    oh lookie, i discovered where ILA's money goes and apparently it isn't against gun control initiatives. quote:
    The explosion in spending came as the NRA poured unprecedented amounts of money into efforts to deliver Donald Trump the White House and help Republicans hold both houses of Congress.

    The audit filed with the state of North Carolina shows that the NRA’s total expenditures exploded to more than $419 million, up from $312 million the prior year.

    The jump is even more stark when compared to its spending during the previous two presidential elections in 2012 and 2008, when their outlays topped out at $261 million and $204 million...unquote Audit shows NRA spending surged $100 million amidst pro-Trump push in 2016
     
  17. 44Brent

    44Brent
    Olympia
    Active Member

    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    154
    I'm pleased to see the NRA Institute for Legislative Affairs is doing exactly what is expected of them by donors. Now, if they start promoting Democrats and Hillary Clinton I might stop sending money.
     
    Slobray, bbbass and Lilhigbee like this.
  18. BSG 75

    BSG 75
    Oregon
    Platinum Supporter Platinum Supporter

    Messages:
    723
    Likes Received:
    641
    Voting against gun control or writing to your representatives about gun rights in Democrat-dominated states is a waste of time. Look to California and to the voting results of Washington's I-594 and I-1639 if you doubt it. Court challenges are the ONLY remedies for gun rights in blue, pro-gun control states.

    You don't want to donate money. We get it. Keep your pennies. We'll contribute without you.

    If the effort is successful you should at least be able to say thank you to the NRA and SAF. That won't cost you anything.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
    Slobray, Caveman Jim and Lilhigbee like this.
  19. 44Brent

    44Brent
    Olympia
    Active Member

    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    154
    Gun Control Lobby ‘Eclipsed’ NRA Spending in Midterm Elections

    The gun control lobby nearly doubled the NRA in spending during the midterm elections.

    The New York Times reports that Gabby Giffords’ gun control group and Michael Bloomberg-funded Everytown for Gun Safety spent nearly $40 million “at the state and federal level in the midterms.” The NRA spent $20 million.
     

Share This Page