Quick load and Gordon's reloading tool

[jkor]

I bought a windows laptop just to use these windows only programs.
Very interesting so far. Still waiting for quickload software in the mail, been messing with GRT.
seems about right so far. My suspicions that data for 7.62x54r/rl15 is on the conservative side (hornady max load had zero pressure signs and simulation is less than 45,000psi), and rl15 might be a bit on slow end for a 20 inch barrel for 54r
No data available in manuals for 10x but, from simulations it looks like a better powder for 54r 150gr

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[Benchrest]

Haven't used GRT but have extensive time with QL.

QL's predictions with bottle necked cartridges can be scary accurate (like within 11fps), and completely off base with straight walled (I built my own Pressure Trace device for 10mm).

I'd take everything QL states with a grain of salt, but combined with published data it can be useful.

Proceed with caution.

 

[jkor]

It's interesting to just mess with different combinations in the simulation, that one probably would not attempt in real life without blowing your face off. Or, getting some clarity on what one is seeing in real life. It doesn't factor in things like primers though, I know there is up to a 100fps difference between primers (murom lrp's are on the weak side, but I have a lot of them)
For engines I used to mess with software called desktop Dyno. I actually built two engines off of what it recommended and it worked pretty well.

 

[ageingstudent]

Haven't used GRT but have extensive time with QL.

QL's predictions with bottle necked cartridges can be scary accurate (like within 11fps), and completely off base with straight walled (I built my own Pressure Trace device for 10mm).

I'd take everything QL states with a grain of salt, but combined with published data it can be useful.

Proceed with caution.

Okay now I'm interested. How did you build one?

 

[Nosferatu]

Software still comes in the mail? Is it 1995 again?

 

[ageingstudent]

Software still comes in the mail? Is it 1995 again?

I'm getting so old I didn't even think about that haha.

 

[jkor]

Software still comes in the mail? Is it 1995 again?

quickload was probably from 1995. Something about trade restrictions or something. Gordon's reloading tool is newer but, the person who released it died in 2022 and it will no longer be updated? Those are the only reloading software I know of

 

[Benchrest]

Okay now I'm interested. How did you build one?

Crudely

http://10mm-reloaded.com/Pressure_Trace_II_platform/10mm_Pressure_Trace_II.html

 

[ageingstudent]

Crudely

http://10mm-reloaded.com/Pressure_Trace_II_platform/10mm_Pressure_Trace_II.html

Okay that's pretty damn awesome.

 

[ageingstudent]

Crudely

http://10mm-reloaded.com/Pressure_Trace_II_platform/10mm_Pressure_Trace_II.html

I'm totally showing that to my girlfriend

 

[Whisky Tahoe]

Congrats on using reloading SW. Quickload comes on discs per German copyright law. GRT can be downloaded. Case volume is the biggest variable I have found so far. The default case volumes are probably not YOUR case volumes. I plug the primer hole and zero the scale then fill with water. Surface tension works against you so I use a syringe with a needle to get the level even with the case mouth. My cases were 3 grains of H2O less that the default and that was about 5K psi more than the simulation even with velocities matching within a few fps

 

[Whisky Tahoe]

quickload was probably from 1995. Something about trade restrictions or something. Gordon's reloading tool is newer but, the person who released it died in 2022 and it will no longer be updated? Those are the only reloading software I know of

GRT has the lastest Enduron powders included but have been discontinued. This was the reason I got it. I could only find Enduron during the powder shortage so I have several 8lb jugs no one is making new load data for.

The tool has mapped most powder and several lots of European powders. Lots of QL users talk about calibrating the powder to their lots.

The new Hornady ELD-VT 62gr .224 bullet isn't listed in GRT's database but I made one and saved it in the user database.
The 62gr is the same size as the 75gr ELD but with less lead.

 

[Foreverlost]

Purchased QL a few months ago. The plus it is still being updated. Minus is the $$$$ price, ouch. Can't believe it only is available as a CD, but get over it, ain't no other way.

Count on using QL with other reloading manuals. Does QL land in the ballpark with the manuals? I've combined QL with two spreadsheets which are used for barrel time. The gurus on ballistics claim regardless of shape, length, material, etc. all barrels vibrate in the same manner. (resonate like an antenna) There are periods where the barrel is not vibrating. This is when you want the bullet to exit the barrel. Use QL as a means to calculate barrel time for your load to match the spread sheet.

Just taking 50 rounds to the range, each group of 5 rounds vary 0.2 grains weight of power I found a group of 5 that measures about 1 inch at 100 yards. More testing the next trip, but I can see savings in the cost of ammo.

Rifle.......AR-10.........308Win...........16.5 inch barrel............7.62 X 51 chamber. Starting load 43.8 grains of BLC(2). Increased each group 0.2 grains. Last 5 rounds loaded with 45.6 grains of BLC(2). Bullet Sierra 150gr FMJBT. Spread sheet predicted an optimal barrel time at node 8, of 1.049mS. QL predicted at a charge of 44.2 grains of BLC(2) the barrel time would be 1.034mS. This was the best of the 10 groups of five shots that day.

My head is still spinning, how do they do this stuff?

Foreverlost,

 

[Reloader762]

I've been using GRT on Linux for a couple of years now and find it to be fairly accurate with the cast lead loads I'm using. If noting else, I'm getting slightly less velocity that the program states, but there are lots of variables that can be plugged in that can affect the end data. Between GRT, my Garmin chrono, load manual and the particular firearms I'm testing the loads in. I've not had any issues with anything I tested, showing any safety concerns.

There are several individuals that are working on GRT to get it back up and running with updates when that finally happens is anyone's guess. One thing of note is that you can import Quickloads database files into GRT. I did this with NOE's cast bullet database so I could work up some data with some NOE bullets I shoot.

 

[Whisky Tahoe]

Purchased QL a few months ago. The plus it is still being updated. Minus is the $$$$ price, ouch. Can't believe it only is available as a CD, but get over it, ain't no other way.

Count on using QL with other reloading manuals. Does QL land in the ballpark with the manuals? I've combined QL with two spreadsheets which are used for barrel time. The gurus on ballistics claim regardless of shape, length, material, etc. all barrels vibrate in the same manner. (resonate like an antenna) There are periods where the barrel is not vibrating. This is when you want the bullet to exit the barrel. Use QL as a means to calculate barrel time for your load to match the spread sheet.

Just taking 50 rounds to the range, each group of 5 rounds vary 0.2 grains weight of power I found a group of 5 that measures about 1 inch at 100 yards. More testing the next trip, but I can see savings in the cost of ammo.

Rifle.......AR-10.........308Win...........16.5 inch barrel............7.62 X 51 chamber. Starting load 43.8 grains of BLC(2). Increased each group 0.2 grains. Last 5 rounds loaded with 45.6 grains of BLC(2). Bullet Sierra 150gr FMJBT. Spread sheet predicted an optimal barrel time at node 8, of 1.049mS. QL predicted at a charge of 44.2 grains of BLC(2) the barrel time would be 1.034mS. This was the best of the 10 groups of five shots that day.

My head is still spinning, how do they do this stuff?

Foreverlost,

GRT calculated my 22-250 40gr Vmax load within 5fps of my Garmin chronograph. Case volume measured by weighing case full of h20. Fired Lapua varied from Norma virgin brass by 1.04gr 2grs lighter than the default 22-250 case capacity value in the database

For grins I ran a bullet time chart on a 223 load. The calculated Optimal bullet time load was 27.95 compared the my actual test result of 28gr IMR 4166. How do they do that? is right!!!

 

[JoshuaK]

Purchased QL a few months ago. The plus it is still being updated. Minus is the $$$$ price, ouch. Can't believe it only is available as a CD, but get over it, ain't no other way.

Count on using QL with other reloading manuals. Does QL land in the ballpark with the manuals? I've combined QL with two spreadsheets which are used for barrel time. The gurus on ballistics claim regardless of shape, length, material, etc. all barrels vibrate in the same manner. (resonate like an antenna) There are periods where the barrel is not vibrating. This is when you want the bullet to exit the barrel. Use QL as a means to calculate barrel time for your load to match the spread sheet.

Just taking 50 rounds to the range, each group of 5 rounds vary 0.2 grains weight of power I found a group of 5 that measures about 1 inch at 100 yards. More testing the next trip, but I can see savings in the cost of ammo.

Rifle.......AR-10.........308Win...........16.5 inch barrel............7.62 X 51 chamber. Starting load 43.8 grains of BLC(2). Increased each group 0.2 grains. Last 5 rounds loaded with 45.6 grains of BLC(2). Bullet Sierra 150gr FMJBT. Spread sheet predicted an optimal barrel time at node 8, of 1.049mS. QL predicted at a charge of 44.2 grains of BLC(2) the barrel time would be 1.034mS. This was the best of the 10 groups of five shots that day.

My head is still spinning, how do they do this stuff?

Foreverlost,

I'm looking into QL as well because GRT doesn't have some of the powders i am using so pressures are a bit of an estimate for me. So far no issues but i do seem to be under pressured to cycle with this powder (accurate 2200)

If QL comes on a disk and my computer does not have a cd rom drive, do i just buy an external to get it installed on my computer?

 

[jkor]

Yes. That's what i did. Buy a external drive.

 

[arakboss]

Do either of these programs predict what combination of components are likely to predict a SEE?

 

[JoshuaK]

Do either of these programs predict what combination of components are likely to predict a SEE?

I'm not sure what QuickLOAD does, but GRT models the bullet and pressure performance from firing chamber to muzzle. The graphs you see in the program show things like overpressure, unburnt powder, case volume used, etc.

I've personally seen that some of their numbers are excellent and line up well with my results

I've also seen where the program calls out overpressure and dangerous loads for known safe loads.

A lot of this has to do with the lack of user input to verify things. GRT always seemed to rely on user experiences to refine the algorithm that is used for powders, cartridges, and bullets.

It does a lot and seems to be a good place to start if you're interested in developing loads but because they stopped doing updates several years ago after the developer passed away, modern or newer powders don't exist.

For instance:

They have Winchester StaBALL 6.5 but they somehow don't have StayBALL Match - which i like to use for my .308 loading.

I've spent hours trying to build out the powder (yes you can add your own) and I've tried to call the manufacturer to get the specific data needed but they don't offer that publicly, so this leaves me to guess on certain things, attempting to model the burn of the powder using other powders as a guide but then checking the estimated performance against known loading data. So far I've been able to match data on the heavier bullets for this powder but as i go lighter, the model falls apart

My point being:

Quickload updates their program regularly

 

[JoshuaK]

Yes. That's what i did. Buy a external drive.

How do you get the updates? Do those come via disk as well?

And...

How do you like the program? (Maybe the best question?)

Finally:

Is there a list of powders they have in their library? I'd hate to spend the money only to figure out later that the program doesn't have things I'm trying to use and develope