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Obama's Extortion of the Vets Gun Rights

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by U201491, Jun 5, 2015.

  1. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Vets told they can 'buy back' 2nd Amendment rights
    'This is illegal and is called extortion'
    Published: 4 hours ago
    [iframe name="pmad-in2-frame" width="160" height="365" align="top" id="pmad-in2-frame" src="javascript:(function() {document.open();document.write("
    People who live with veterans now are being ordered not to possess a gun, and some veterans are told they can “buy back” their Second Amendment rights by giving up their veterans’ benefits.

    “This is simply unbelievable, On the one hand the [Veterans Administration] and the FBI have found veterans to be mentally ill and too dangerous to be allowed to own firearms, while on the other hand allowing these allegedly dangerous people to buy their firearms rights back,” wrote Michael Connelly, executive director of the United States Justice Foundation in a report.

    “This is illegal and is called extortion.”

    The organization has been looking into claims by a number of veterans and their family members.

    The veterans were sent a letter telling them they were being classified as incompetent and the government was assigning someone to help them handle their benefits and payments.

    The story of Vietnam, from Gen. Patrick Brady, one of the nation’s Medal of Honor recipients, in “Dead Men Flying.”

    Consequently, they were told, they could no longer own weapons, under penalty of fines and jail time.

    The problem was that the veterans were being determined guilty without a hearing regarding the potential loss of their constitutional rights, USJF said at the time.

    WND broke the story that the Obama administration insisted it was routine for officials to send out letters informing veterans that an unidentified “report” indicated they may be declared incompetent and consequently stripped of their Second Amendment rights.

    It’s the same administration that in 2009 warned that “returning veterans possess combat skills and experience that are attractive to rightwing extremists.”

    The 2009 report from the Department of Homeland Security was called “Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment.” It also said Obama’s governmental managers were “concerned that rightwing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to boost their violent capabilities.”

    So when hundreds, perhaps thousands, of veterans began receiving letters like the one dispatched from the Portland, Oregon, office of the Department of Veterans Affairs, alarm bells went off.

    In the recent report, Connelly explainedhe’s uncovered so far “a coordinated effort by multiple federal agencies to disarm the American people.”

    He cited the tactic of sending letters to veterans about being appointed a “fiduciary” and the resulting loss of constitutional rights.

    “As we have gotten more aggressive in representing individual veterans to defend their constitutional rights the VA has adopted additional tactics against our American heroes,” the report said. “Some veterans have never gotten any letter or official notification from the VA. They find out they are on the NCIS list [of people banned from having weapons] when they try to purchase a firearm.

    “Often they can’t even find out why they are on the list.”

    Or veterans are told they are incompetent and can appeal the decision.

    “But [they] are being told that if they do defy the government and appeal, their benefit payments can be suspended for the duration of the appeal, which can drag on for years,” the report said.

    “The families of veterans are also [being] told that since they live with a veteran who has been declared incompetent they can’t own or purchase firearms.”

    Or there’s that option to give up benefits, the report said.

    And it’s expanding. Seniors on Medicare, some dental patients and even children seeing pediatricians have been questioned about firearm ownership.

    Medical records are being passed from the Department of Health and Human Services to the FBI “of anyone who has ever told their physician they were feeling depressed, even if never treated, and anyone who has taken certain drugs for things like PTSD, ADD, or ADHD, among others.”

    And, the report said the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms is adding regulations that ban from owning weapons anyone who ever was “examined by a psychiatrist or psychologist,” a routine part of many family court cases.

    “What is next? Will you have to surrender your firearms to keep your Social Security, or to stay on Medicare? Will you have to certify that neither you nor any of you[r] employees own firearms in order to get a contract with the federal government?”

    The door to the dispute opened when USJF received a copy of a letter to a veteran from the Portland VA Medical Center several years ago.

    The letter warned the vet that “evidence indicates that you are not able to handle your VA benefit payments because of a physical or mental condition.”

    “We propose to rate you incompetent for VA purposes. This means we must decide if you are able to handle your VA benefit payments. We will base our decision on all the evidence we already have including any other evidence you sent to us.”

    The VA also warned: “A determination of incompetency will prohibit you from purchasing, possessing, receiving, or transporting a firearm or ammunition. If you knowingly violate any of these prohibitions, you may be fined, imprisoned, or both.”

    The letter was signed by K. Kalama, Veterans Service Center manager in the Oregon Department of Veterans Affairs. But it didn’t present the “evidence,” the source of the evidence or why the veteran’s competency even was questioned.

    At the time, WND contacted the Department of Veterans Affairs, and spokesman Randy Noller responded with a statement that the letters were no more than routine. But questions about why the letters are being sent, what evidence is used to determine a veteran is incapable of managing his or her affairs, who provides that information and why it is provided remain unanswered.

    “The Department of Veterans Affairs’ policy to inform veterans of their rights regarding the Brady Act has not changed,” the statement said. “As has been policy for multiple administrations, VA acts in accordance with federal law and works with the Department of Justice to properly maintain the NCIS database. VA notifies any veteran who may be deemed by VA to be mentally incapable of managing his or her own funds of the opportunity to contest this determination and also to seek relief from the reporting requirements under the Brady Act, as required by law.”

    Also unanswered was who makes the decision to put in motion the department’s decision to “deem” veterans “mentally incapable.”

    Connelly noted the letter “provides no specifics on the reasons for the proposed finding of incompetency; just that is based on a determination by someone in the VA.”

    “In every state in the United States no one can be declared incompetent to administer their own affairs without due process of law and that usually requires a judicial hearing with evidence being offered to prove to a judge that the person is indeed incompetent,” he explained.

    “This is a requirement of the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution that states that no person shall ‘be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.”

    Read the letter that got the investigation started:

    image: http://www.wnd.com/files/2013/02/VAOne.jpg

    VAOne.jpg


    image: http://www.wnd.com/files/2013/02/VATwo.jpg

    VATwo.jpg


    image: http://www.wnd.com/files/2013/02/VAThree.jpg

    VAThree.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
  2. forefathersrback

    forefathersrback Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Oh,yes, another proud moment of this countries administrations! Here's my view....... Molon Labe!
     
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  3. Goosebrown

    Goosebrown Beaverton Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    This exact thing happened to my former employers. They were told they were incompetent and their spouses made their guardians for VA affairs and then they got the letter. Appeal? Sure. You wait in line there.

    They still own their guns of course. They weren't stupid enough to make a point of it. However they can't get any more guns.
     
  4. ikemay

    ikemay WA Well-Known Member

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    Amen brother, amen.

    Mike
     
  5. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    I remember the Army trying to foist "grief counsellors" on my unit after we redeployed back stateside from a mission... There wasn't a single taker of the offer because we all KNEW that kinda shiete in a 201 file was a career ender, plus none of us were grieving over what we did. o_O ;)
     
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  6. rltrim46ford

    rltrim46ford lebanon Well-Known Member

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    My brother is a decorated Vietnam Veteran who was diagnosed with PTD by the Florida VA. Since that time he had purchased several firearms through a BGC. He was suddenly denied and when he followed up he eventually wound up in an Oregon State Police office talking to an officer in a private room. When the officer asked him about the question on the 4473 regarding being judged incompetent he told the officer he had answered no to the question. The officer told him he had done nothing wrong in answering in the negative, however, he asked my brother if he had been diagnosed with PTSD. When he answered in the affirmative, the officer told him that was the reason for the denial. He could get that denial lifted if he got rid of the PTSD diagnosis.

    All this is the result of a total disregard of our Veterans by the current political mindset and it includes both parties. John McCain is one of the front runners. The guy got let out of the hanoi hilton 40 years too soon. We got spit on and in other ways totally assaulted by the public back then but we rose above it. Now the governing bodies in this country are doing the same thing to our current and past Veterans. I have a real tough time explaining to my son that just retired after 21 years in the Air Force and 6 tours in country that his country loves him but the political leaders in the country despise him. I think I would rather be spat upon.

    There should be some oversight not just here in Oregon where the constitution was ignored but also at the national level. I'm sure there is but the system is rigged against that sort of thing. After all, look who put the system in place, a bunch of shady shysters.

    Just my opinion, but I'm right.
     
  7. Classic

    Classic Federal Way WA Well-Known Member

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  8. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Having had to "adjust" when I returned back to "the world", I had a anger and agressiveness issues that took a while to sort out. One day it occurred to me that these two main "issues" were partly caused by grief.

    By grief I don't mean remorse per say, but grief in realizing that the "system" I was serving was screwing us service members over by putting us in positions where we HAD to do "certain and needful things" all the while playing the other end against our "supposed goals" too.

    Then there's the sense of losing and missing the comradery, and looking at the "civilian world" and seeing so much lack of discipline that it's difficult to not sneer at it with contempt... "the world" that we were willing to lay down our lives for.

    I don't regret a GD thing I did on missions, but I do regret HAVING HAD to do them... so much wasted life and treasure. o_O
     
  9. balaperdida

    balaperdida eastern idaho Well-Known Member

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    In the recent report, Connelly explainedhe’s uncovered so far “a coordinated effort by multiple federal agencies to disarm the American people.”

    Isn't that something every gun forum member has known for at least the past six years?
     
  10. JRuby

    JRuby St. Helens Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know first hand of someone that this has happened too. I am not talking about a friend of a friend - I am talking first person knowledge? I personally do not.
     
  11. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Yep good friend recently got denied a gun purchase because of PTSD from Vietnam Nam. He bought a number of guns pre Obama with no problems. Has been a model citizen helping many other vets get over their PTSD. It shows what the left really thinks about our vets...
     
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  12. JRuby

    JRuby St. Helens Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply it is one thing to read about another to have actually experienced it. That lends credibility.
     
  13. rltrim46ford

    rltrim46ford lebanon Well-Known Member

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    It happened to my brother and the state police officer told him that if he got the PTSD removed then he could get approval. The individual Just Jim talks about is a friend of both of us. This is real pure and simple. A perfect example of what the administrations thinks of Veterans and now we will have 8 years of the hildabeast and we know for sure how she thinks of Veterans..
     
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