Measuring Natural Gas

[MikeInOr]

Yes but. Is this precision reflected in honest billing?

Which gets back to my original premise. In order to bill using therms, they still have to know some kind of volume, don't they? Regardless of what the energy content is. Because they don't give you a blank check amount of therms. Volume still has a place in there somewhere. Which is why I am suspicious of the added step of recalculating in therms. As a consumer, as long as my range gets gas, I don't care about the variations in the chemical content of the gas. It's more important to me that I see a solid number in consumption that I can reference backward and forward in time.

Yes, the meter measures by volume. I believe natural gas is dropped to 1/4 psi as it enters the house. A minute difference in the pressure regulator can have a big difference on how much you are billed. If the pressure is a few percentage over the psi used to calculate usage you get more gas at the burner of your water heater, which puts out more BTU's, which means the water heats faster, which means the flame shuts off sooner, which means you would get billed less.

The BTU's of natural gas not only varies by pressure but the temperature of the natural gas also changes the density at any particular PSI.

If you look at a 50 or 75 year old residential gas meter how accurate do you think the pressure and measured usage is going to be? As meters and the pressure regulators in them age do you think they let through a high pressure or a lower pressure? When was the last time the gas company came out and checked the line pressure in your house?

 

[Ducati_Meister]

Didn't Blazing Saddles establish natural gas measuring methods lol.

 

[TTSX]

I'm sure we're getting shafted and there's probably not much we can do about it. I'm also hooked up to eweb which is way, way too expensive. Springfield, the city next door, gets arguably the exact same water and electricity for a far lower price from SUB. I get NW natural gas. About the only service provider I get a choice in is my Internet. Everything else is pretty much a monopoly, as in feck you, pay me.

 

[TTSX]

Didn't Blazing Saddles establish natural gas measuring methods lol.

Gimme da beenz

 

[gmerkt]

If you look at a 50 or 75 year old residential gas meter how accurate do you think the pressure and measured usage is going to be? As meters and the pressure regulators in them age do you think they let through a high pressure or a lower pressure? When what the last time the gas company came out and checked the line pressure in your house?

Since I haven't had nat. gas service in a while, I can only go by previous experience. As I said earlier, in my former home town the city owned the gas utility. They had a small fleet of Ford Rancheros being driven around that made service calls, including meter switch-outs. But I'm thinking meters weren't routinely changed. If I had to guess, they got changed as soon as the gas dept. discovered that the meter was no longer turning (or whatever) and the customer was getting free or at least highly discounted gas.

I'm sure we're getting shafted and there's probably not much we can do about it.

This expresses my opinion nicely.

The blending stations once again control the BTU content (therms). This is not an unknown number

Okay, if they can do this, then why all the hoopla about needing to measure in therms to account for differences in BTU's??!! Maybe the following applies.

One last question and I will give this a rest. The utilities have to measure volume at the meter in order to come up with therm calculations. Now that computers are in control is the therm calculation a changing dynamic throughout a billing cycle?

My former home town used to have a gasometer, one of those big gas storage tanks that raised and lowered with the amount of gas inside. They outgrew that at some point, and installed a series of very large cylindrical tanks that looked kind of like a pack of giant hot dogs. Then one time, I went back to visit and all this apparatus was gone. I was told that city gas supplies were all furnished directly from operators in Texas, it was strictly on demand, and all controlled by computers.

The gasometer was built near the airport, not an ideal location you'd think. In 1974, a civil aircraft flew into it and four out of five people in it were killed.

Many thanks to people who have posted re. this subject and provided more information.

 

[gmerkt]

Not long ago, I was watching one of those crime reality shows on cable TV. It was about this couple in Indianapolis who conspired to blow up the woman's house in order to get an insurance payout. They removed the pressure regulator on the gas meter. Then they put a fire extinguisher inside a microwave oven and set the timer for a couple of days in the future. Then they left for the weekend. When the timer went off in the microwave oven, it cooked the fire extinguisher and that blew up, which was the ignition source for the house filled with nat. The explosion was way greater than the couple intended. It flattened several houses, started a big fire that burned down some more, killed two people next door. Dozens more houses were damaged to the point they were complete losses and had to be demolished.

 

[WillametteWill]

Not long ago, I was watching one of those crime reality shows on cable TV. It was about this couple in Indianapolis who conspired to blow up the woman's house in order to get an insurance payout. They removed the pressure regulator on the gas meter. Then they put a fire extinguisher inside a microwave oven and set the timer for a couple of days in the future. Then they left for the weekend. When the timer went off in the microwave oven, it cooked the fire extinguisher and that blew up, which was the ignition source for the house filled with nat. The explosion was way greater than the couple intended. It flattened several houses, started a big fire that burned down some more, killed two people next door. Dozens more houses were damaged to the point they were complete losses and had to be demolished.

Terrible for the two killed of course, but ironic that they started a fire...with a fire extinguisher.

 

[Foreverlost]

Yes, the meter measures by volume. I believe natural gas is dropped to 1/4 psi as it enters the house. A minute difference in the pressure regulator can have a big difference on how much you are billed. If the pressure is a few percentage over the psi used to calculate usage you get more gas at the burner of your water heater, which puts out more BTU's, which means the water heats faster, which means the flame shuts off sooner, which means you would get billed less.

The BTU's of natural gas not only varies by pressure but the temperature of the natural gas also changes the density at any particular PSI.

If you look at a 50 or 75 year old residential gas meter how accurate do you think the pressure and measured usage is going to be? As meters and the pressure regulators in them age do you think they let through a high pressure or a lower pressure? When was the last time the gas company came out and checked the line pressure in your house?

Sort of but................natural gas is just that a gas. In order to measure the volume; the pressure, temperature, and flow are taken into account by the meter. Once again BTUs (therms) are controlled by a blending station. You can bet your bottom dollar this station is controlled by some sort of programable logic controller, PLC. The PLC has computer logic loaded into it and will communicate to the owners. The company of which I'm retired used Bristol Babcock PLC's on their pipelines. Accol was the programming language. Owners of the blending station are able to make adjustments with a click of the mouse anywhere on the third rock from the sun. I know. Been there. That BTU number is going to remain very close to the setpoint in the PLC. As long as the BTU content of the gas wells remain higher than the setpoint, adjustments are nil. If for any reason the BTU content of the gas wells drops below the setpoint, adjustment of billing will be made throughout the entire gas well to customer process. There are alarms in this system. Somewhere on the third rock from the sun, people are watching computer monitors, HMI's. (human machine interface)

How long will a natural gas meter last? How often does it need replaced? Ask your local PUC, public utility commission. Quit bitc******

Your focus should be on the past history of Mexifornia. Back in the mid 90's radio & TV station were constantly promoting the deregulation of electricity. What happened, Enron!!!!! This is where "We The People" get screwed with a large screw.

Foreverlost,

 

[64MercurysRule]

Didn't Blazing Saddles establish natural gas measuring methods lol.

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/AHx_0apo1tM?si=tTtMdr91Ug3XqS6d

 

[Stomper]

Didn't Blazing Saddles establish natural gas measuring methods lol.

They did, but it was using jugs….

 

[64MercurysRule]

They did, but it was using jugs….
View attachment 1928316

Is that Obama , Biden & Pelosi .......

 

[gmerkt]

That BTU number is going to remain very close to the setpoint in the PLC. As long as the BTU content of the gas wells remain higher than the setpoint, adjustments are nil. If for any reason the BTU content of the gas wells drops below the setpoint, adjustment of billing will be made throughout the entire gas well to customer process.

This is one of the nuggets of information I was hoping for.

 

[gmerkt]

How long will a natural gas meter last?

Where I used to live, I've seen some pretty crusty looking gas meters which suggested that they weren't changed very often.

 

[Foreverlost]

This is one of the nuggets of information I was hoping for.

Keep in mind this is a long chain that starts at the producer (gas wells). As that transmission pipeline works its way to the end, there are gas companies which tap into the main transmission pipeline. You can bet your bottom dollar there is a paymeter station at each tap and a means to measure the BTU content. Process control valves, PLC's, and other equipment monitor each step of the pipeline. On some of our pipelines we had a hydraulic valve which would close and isolate that section in the event of a rupture. All the gas companies most likely have a means to communicate back to the producer and notify of a need to increase or decrease rates. A complex system............but well organized!

Stop and think? Would you as a gas company trust the seller's paymeter & calorimeter? Each tap on that main transmission most likely are comparing data. It is a big deal when it comes time for a verification of the paymeter and associated equipment. There will be very knowledgeable representatives for both parties watching with eagle eyes.

I strongly suggest acquiring about 20 years of experience before sticking your nose into one of these events!

To those questioning the accuracy of the gas meters. I'm comparing that which I have firsthand experience, water meters. This is apples to oranges but think for what you ask. Meters can run slow, fast, or spot on requirements. If the meter runs slow the customer is getting FREE water. Way back then water meters never ran fast. PO,ed customers when they demanded a new water meter, and their water bills increased.

Today's labor cost I have to question if anyone refurbishes, repairs, and then calibrates old gas meters. Cheaper to toss the old meter into the dumpster and install a new meter for the customer. If anyone can find a tech that plays this game of repairing old gas meters, ask them?

IN vs OUT: I'll bet maybe a few pennies on this item. Somewhere in this ball of wax your natural gas company has to account for the cubic feet of gas that flows through their pipelines. It had better be damned close to the same number of cubic feet billed to customers. If not where is the leak? Or maybe there are some meters that are not worth crap. The natural gas company has that information, and an error percentage allowed.

Careful about what you ask.

Foreverlost,

 

[gmerkt]

Today's labor cost I have to question if anyone refurbishes, repairs, and then calibrates old gas meters. Cheaper to toss the old meter into the dumpster and install a new meter for the customer. I

Most residential gas meters that I've been familiar with have a pair of diaphragms in them that pulse back and forth, kind of like lungs. Which turn some gears that turn some pointers or wheels on gauges. As a mere observer, the meters I've seen from the post WW2 era and later were often sealed units. The housing was stamped steel and once opened, was not reusable. Older (or poss. more expensive) ones like a Sprague with a circular, bolt-on face appeared to be serviceable / repairable. I'm guessing that at one time, utilities may have had shops that refurbished meters but due to contemporary labor costs stated above, it's likely no longer done. Sealed, one-time use units are probably more economical. Like so many other mechanical devices we buy and use today.

There are rotary gas meters but I think these are used in industrial applications. Natural gas pressures in industry may be higher than what goes into residences which requires a different type of meter.

Restaurants that use lots of nat. gas, you go around back and find their meter, it's a scaled-up version of what most residential homes have.

To those questioning the accuracy of the gas meters. I'm comparing that which I have firsthand experience, water meters. This is apples to oranges but think for what you ask. Meters can run slow, fast, or spot on requirements. If the meter runs slow the customer is getting FREE water. Way back then water meters never ran fast. PO,ed customers when they demanded a new water meter, and their water bills increased.

Water meters. In the 37 years that I've lived here, the water district has come around and replaced mine a couple of times that I know of. Which I didn't request. At one point, they replaced it to incorporate some kind of electronic device that sits on top of the vault lid. They read the meter electronically, they don't have to pull the lid, dig away loose earth, and flip up the dial cap to get a reading.

 

[GrayGoose]

Measuring Natural Gas:

 

[Flopsweat]

Measuring Natural Gas:

View attachment 1929233

I think the red zone might be unnatural gas.

 

[Foreverlost]

I think the red zone might be unnatural gas.

Could be Thunder Spray