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So I was pursuing the junk rack at a local gun store when I found something that caught my eye; it was a Carcano and it looked mostly complete except it was missing the front sight. There was no details on the card and about the only thing I did know about it was that it was not a standard 6.5 chambering, as the shopkeep said that he tried it and those cartridges did not fit.
I decided to snap it up and I would take it home to try to figure out what it shot and find the missing part. Should be pretty easy, I thought, as Carcano rifles are not all that rare, and front sights are typically one of the easier parts to come across for restoration projects. I figured I could probably even find a suitable replacement from one of the many online parts brokers. It should also be pretty easy to figure out what it shot too as it was probably rebarreld at some point to a more "standard" hunting cartridge. I was not going to be too worried about historical accuracy since I assumed it was all adulterated and sporterized anyway, I just wanted to get something shootable and call it good.
Purchase made and I brought it home to begin the process of really figuring out what I had. And oh boy did that go down a rabbit hole. Now it must be said that I am no expert in historic arms. I dabble, and I usually know enough off the top of my head to get me in the ballpark, but past that I rely on internet searches, reference books and picking the brains of more knowledgeable people. I started by trying to narrow down what exactly I had (as "Carcano" actually covers a rather large family of rifles which are all pretty similar but have distinct differences). I figured if I at least had the basic model this was spoterized from I could just order a few parts from that and more than likely they would fit and I could be done with the project.
That is not what happened at all, as the first book I checked I hit the jackpot, as that book had a picture of my exact rifle, right down to the wood finish and furniture hardware. This was not a sporterized or adulterated example at all, this was a near pristine example of Italian Fascist Youth Training Rifle straight from the interwar period. These were blank firing* 3/4th scale rifles utilized by the Opera Nazionale Balilla to train Mussolini's youth on the manual of arms for the national firearm.
I immediately hit up some of the major sites to find out more info, including how common these things are. First disappointment: no major sites had any record of this firearm in inventory. No parts, no category, nothing. Checking GunBroker I found only one example, a complete rifle, on record for the past 6 months. No parts were listed there either, currently or in the sales history. There are a few pages on this historical sites that mention this rifle, but most of them have conflicting information. This is where we get to that asterisk from above;
*I am not sure this is a blank-only firing weapon. I mean, it certainly seems well documented that it could use blanks, I even found photos of them online, and this makes sense for the intended role, but there is also some references that it used low power 6mm(x35?) ammo. Furthermore my rifle is fully rifled, nice crisp groves all the way down the barrel. This makes zero sense if the rifle could indeed only shoot blanks. Why have the rifling at all? Why not just a smooth, plugged and vented barrel? The rifling wold need to be there for something right? But other than some obscure references that talk about the rounds being "easily reloadable" I can find nothing else on the topic. I have no idea if these could be wax or wood projectiles, or if it was intended to shoot something more substantial, like an actual 6mm lead ball cartridge, or even somthing else more obscure than that. I am pretty sure these are not just repurposed barrels from something else as it is custom fit to the action, and this one is almost certainly original as it has all the correct stamps and markings (at least as far as I can tell).
So this is where we get into my call to action and bounty. I am offering a $20 bounty to direct referrals that lead to a purchase of parts and equipment that bring this gun back to an original working configuration. I don't want "go check out <some gun show>" or "So and so deals in antique firearms, he may know something." Those are great advice and list them below if you have them, but they will not earn you that bounty. What earns a bounty is "here is a direct link to one of the parts you need for sale/auction online." Or "talk to <this dude> and ask about <this part> that he had in his possession recently." If I manage to score the part in question and it makes it into this rifle's kit I will contact you about getting you your bounty. The things I know I need;
here is a gallery for what I want it to look like
www.iwm.org.uk
Here is a reference to what I hope is the correct clip and blank cartridges;
forum.cartridgecollectors.org
If you have any more information please post links, there seems to be precious little actual information about these online. If I can gather enough parts I would love to put a few of these speculations to the test and post a definitive answer for posterity (most specifically the idea that the blanks could be used to propell a seperatly loaded 6mm bt bullet down the barrel, which is an interesing idea considering these were magazine fed).
I decided to snap it up and I would take it home to try to figure out what it shot and find the missing part. Should be pretty easy, I thought, as Carcano rifles are not all that rare, and front sights are typically one of the easier parts to come across for restoration projects. I figured I could probably even find a suitable replacement from one of the many online parts brokers. It should also be pretty easy to figure out what it shot too as it was probably rebarreld at some point to a more "standard" hunting cartridge. I was not going to be too worried about historical accuracy since I assumed it was all adulterated and sporterized anyway, I just wanted to get something shootable and call it good.
Purchase made and I brought it home to begin the process of really figuring out what I had. And oh boy did that go down a rabbit hole. Now it must be said that I am no expert in historic arms. I dabble, and I usually know enough off the top of my head to get me in the ballpark, but past that I rely on internet searches, reference books and picking the brains of more knowledgeable people. I started by trying to narrow down what exactly I had (as "Carcano" actually covers a rather large family of rifles which are all pretty similar but have distinct differences). I figured if I at least had the basic model this was spoterized from I could just order a few parts from that and more than likely they would fit and I could be done with the project.
That is not what happened at all, as the first book I checked I hit the jackpot, as that book had a picture of my exact rifle, right down to the wood finish and furniture hardware. This was not a sporterized or adulterated example at all, this was a near pristine example of Italian Fascist Youth Training Rifle straight from the interwar period. These were blank firing* 3/4th scale rifles utilized by the Opera Nazionale Balilla to train Mussolini's youth on the manual of arms for the national firearm.
I immediately hit up some of the major sites to find out more info, including how common these things are. First disappointment: no major sites had any record of this firearm in inventory. No parts, no category, nothing. Checking GunBroker I found only one example, a complete rifle, on record for the past 6 months. No parts were listed there either, currently or in the sales history. There are a few pages on this historical sites that mention this rifle, but most of them have conflicting information. This is where we get to that asterisk from above;
*I am not sure this is a blank-only firing weapon. I mean, it certainly seems well documented that it could use blanks, I even found photos of them online, and this makes sense for the intended role, but there is also some references that it used low power 6mm(x35?) ammo. Furthermore my rifle is fully rifled, nice crisp groves all the way down the barrel. This makes zero sense if the rifle could indeed only shoot blanks. Why have the rifling at all? Why not just a smooth, plugged and vented barrel? The rifling wold need to be there for something right? But other than some obscure references that talk about the rounds being "easily reloadable" I can find nothing else on the topic. I have no idea if these could be wax or wood projectiles, or if it was intended to shoot something more substantial, like an actual 6mm lead ball cartridge, or even somthing else more obscure than that. I am pretty sure these are not just repurposed barrels from something else as it is custom fit to the action, and this one is almost certainly original as it has all the correct stamps and markings (at least as far as I can tell).
So this is where we get into my call to action and bounty. I am offering a $20 bounty to direct referrals that lead to a purchase of parts and equipment that bring this gun back to an original working configuration. I don't want "go check out <some gun show>" or "So and so deals in antique firearms, he may know something." Those are great advice and list them below if you have them, but they will not earn you that bounty. What earns a bounty is "here is a direct link to one of the parts you need for sale/auction online." Or "talk to <this dude> and ask about <this part> that he had in his possession recently." If I manage to score the part in question and it makes it into this rifle's kit I will contact you about getting you your bounty. The things I know I need;
- Front sight and bayonet mount (one piece)
- The bayonet itself (bespoke piece? standard inventory from a military rifle?)
- En block clip (3/4 scale compared to the full sized rifle)
- Reusable blank firing cartridges (use primers as far as I can tell)
- actual 6mm(x35?) ball/wax/whatever ammo, if it exists
here is a gallery for what I want it to look like
Moschetto Balilla
Moschetto Balilla rifle; scaled down copy of Mannlicher Carcano Cavalry Carbine. Despite being intended only as a blank firer, its method of construction and barrel length place it in the Section 1 category.
Here is a reference to what I hope is the correct clip and blank cartridges;
One of the (6,35) Balilla Typs Clip, Box and ammo for the Carcano youth Rifle
As there are several different Balilla Types, here the one for a 6,35 Caliber Version, firing blank ammo only. I Show Clip with the rare Dummy/Training-Rounds and a box of Blanks and a blank cartridge. Some other types uses steeltubes and cappelozzi as firing cartridges, some only as blank and...
forum.cartridgecollectors.org
If you have any more information please post links, there seems to be precious little actual information about these online. If I can gather enough parts I would love to put a few of these speculations to the test and post a definitive answer for posterity (most specifically the idea that the blanks could be used to propell a seperatly loaded 6mm bt bullet down the barrel, which is an interesing idea considering these were magazine fed).
