Lawyer For Suing Lawyers

[Spec.-K]

Also, I didn't know my rights as a client, and took the- "Don't be too much of a thorn-in-their-side, or they might drop you...
I looked them up, and sure enough, they've violated all of these...

 

[Alexx1401]

Slam dunk as in I have all the evidence to prove that the credit card debt she racked up in my name is ALL HERS, even providing paystubs and Google Maps data that proved I was working while my cards were being used out of state.
I have proof that we were receiving rent money from her adult son and friends that we were renting out our garage apartment to, which SHE LIED about in the Interrogatories Process.
I have proof that I was being deceived as to what the debt was, and what the amounts were, with her even going so far as to claim that a good amount was vet bills from when my elderly dog started to decline in health...

Yes, I let her handle the bills, because she has a Degree in Business Management, and convinced me that she could better handle the needs of the family(2 stepkids, no bio-kids together), but she couldn't run the business of our household without embezzling over $100K.
And this was all within 3 years of us separating and agreeing to cohabitate in different parts of the house so we could pay down debt and make a clean break.

And please bear in mind that I'm diagnosed AuDHD (Autism Spectrum Disorder/ADHD), so time moves differently in my mind.
But she used that to manipulate my trust and to rob me of over $100K once we decided that we couldn't continue on as a married unit.

And NO. I do NOT tolerate being stolen from, so both her AND the lawyers that did the same thing WILL pay...even if it means me becoming a lawyer and going after them myself!
I've had to do the lawyers job for them this entire time, so I'm fairly certain I could get a degree with a bit of effort...
But if there are any lawyers I could study under, I'd appreciate it
I also follow Washington Gun Law, and Four Boxes Diner on YouTube, so I listen to legal stuff for a good portion of my day.
Law is and always has been an interest/hobby of mine since I retain much of what I read, and grasp the material well with the quite literal nature of my brain workings...
Still, any advice OTHER than the defeatist "be lucky it wasn't more..." would be appreciated.M, because Sunk-Cost Fallacy does not compute for me, and I WILL NOT take it lying down/bent over!
-K

Again all this is a sad tale but, this is not court. While venting here may make you feel better? No one here can undo what was done. You can either eat the loss or look for yet another lawyer.

 

[monkeybutler]

I've thought about it....some of thise women from India ignite a spark in me...

Super.

 

[Spec.-K]

Again all this is a sad tale but, this is not court. While venting here may make you feel better? No one here can undo what was done. You can either eat the loss or look for yet another lawyer.

I'm asking for advice, and trying to find help from people whom have experienced similar.
You're comment is unnecessary.
As I stated, defeatism is unwelcome.
And I AM meeting with another lawyer, or trying to find enough information to go it alone if I have to.

 

[Stomper]

Mail order bride?

Nope, I went to Australia and did it the hard way! LOL

 

[P7M13]

Law is and always has been an interest/hobby of mine since I retain much of what I read, and grasp the material well with the quite literal nature of my brain workings...
Still, any advice OTHER than the defeatist "be lucky it wasn't more..." would be appreciated.M, because Sunk-Cost Fallacy does not compute for me, and I WILL NOT take it lying down/bent over!

You've already been bent over. You are carrying a great deal of passion and resentment over this, which makes you more vulnerable to being swindled again by a shyster lawyer.
Be advised,

• Your interpretation of the facts and proof is your opinion. It needs to be proven in court.
• What constitutes a crime or responsibility for actions between two married people has a different standard than people in a business contract or person to person. Proving such may involve a much higher standard of proof.
• As far as her financial shenanigans, unless you had a written agreement, it falls under the auspices of marriage.
• I have retained seven different lawyers in my life thus far, and also 'gone it alone.' Even in a simple case, going it alone is much harder because of court rules, filing format, etc. You could be the nicest, most well meaning guy, but my observation of judges on domestic cases is that they are jaded and in some cases, feel contempt for the people before them. In my case, if it hadn't been for an attorney friend giving me advice, I'd have been scröd (collecting a business debt outside of a contract).

My advice to you, when you go to the next attorney for an initial consult, is to make their job as easy as possible. Do not bring something that they need to clean up, present something to them that is a nail, and they will be the hammer. To do this,

1. Leave your passion at the door;
2. Provide a clear timeline of all actionable events and involved parties;
3. Provide names and contact information for all parties involved;
4. Have every claim well documented;
5. Have all your documents well organized.

Be sure to see a few attorneys before selecting one.

 

[Koda]

Slam dunk as in I have all the evidence to prove that the credit card debt she racked up in my name is ALL HERS, even providing paystubs and Google Maps data that proved I was working while my cards were being used out of state.
I have proof that we were receiving rent money from her adult son and friends that we were renting out our garage apartment to, which SHE LIED about in the Interrogatories Process.
I have proof that I was being deceived as to what the debt was, and what the amounts were, with her even going so far as to claim that a good amount was vet bills from when my elderly dog started to decline in health...

Yes, I let her handle the bills, because she has a Degree in Business Management, and convinced me that she could better handle the needs of the family(2 stepkids, no bio-kids together), but she couldn't run the business of our household without embezzling over $100K.
And this was all within 3 years of us separating and agreeing to cohabitate in different parts of the house so we could pay down debt and make a clean break.

And please bear in mind that I'm diagnosed AuDHD (Autism Spectrum Disorder/ADHD), so time moves differently in my mind.
But she used that to manipulate my trust and to rob me of over $100K once we decided that we couldn't continue on as a married unit.

And NO. I do NOT tolerate being stolen from, so both her AND the lawyers that did the same thing WILL pay...even if it means me becoming a lawyer and going after them myself!
I've had to do the lawyers job for them this entire time, so I'm fairly certain I could get a degree with a bit of effort...
But if there are any lawyers I could study under, I'd appreciate it
I also follow Washington Gun Law, and Four Boxes Diner on YouTube, so I listen to legal stuff for a good portion of my day.
Law is and always has been an interest/hobby of mine since I retain much of what I read, and grasp the material well with the quite literal nature of my brain workings...
Still, any advice OTHER than the defeatist "be lucky it wasn't more..." would be appreciated.M, because Sunk-Cost Fallacy does not compute for me, and I WILL NOT take it lying down/bent over!
-K

There is nothing "slam dunk" about credit card debt or spousal financial abuse. Washington is an equity divorce state, meaning any debt your spouse created your both on the line for the court does not care about your google data evidence. I know you only want to hear confirmation bias but the more you pursue this the more its going to cost you. Time to let it go.

 

[Spec.-K]

There is nothing "slam dunk" about credit card debt or spousal financial abuse. Washington is an equity divorce state, meaning any debt your spouse created your both on the line for the court does not care about your google data evidence. I know you only want to hear confirmation bias but the more you pursue this the more its going to cost you. Time to let it go.

Again...not looking for defeatist remarks, and you're only partially correct...
As of January 2020, we decided to no longer be a married entity, as stated in our court papers. It was agreed upon.
The charges she put on the cards were AFTER the agreed upon date of separation, and without my knowledge or consent.
One card showed whom owned each individual card, and my card had 0% usage, whereas hers showed 100% of the charges.
The rest I provided evidence for to show that I couldn't have been the party using the cards out of state.
I spent nearly 3 months forensically auditing the accounts when I left and I made ALL SORTS of spreadsheets that documented everything out to the penny ONLY focusing on stuff POST January 2020.
So yes...I have her lying in FILED court documents.
I have texts that contradict her written testimony IN OFFICIAL FILED court documents.
I have false bill tallies that she presented me with to ACTIVELY TRY AND DECEIVE ME to where the money was going.
And SOMEHOW, the lawyers can't seem to get anything done........

For a bunch of guys that own more firepower than some small countries, there's a LOT of "Roll Over And Take It" mentality here that I never expected to see......
Lawyers aren't magicians of some dark art...they're sworn to codes of conduct becoming of professionals that are defending the rights of their clients.
It's SUPPOSED to be a profession, that once you reach Judgeship, one of the highest titles in the business, you're referred to as "The Honorable Judge XYZ".
A cop can FOREVER be destroyed as a viable witness if there is ANY falsehood in their testimony in court.
It matters as a measure of Integrity.
Mine isn't a Criminal case, in which you have to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt".
We're two people trying to dissolve an agreement.
And as I told my lawyers- "If this was a partnership ANYTHING OTHER than a Marriage, she'd be in jail for Embezzlement."

 

[Koda]

Again...not looking for defeatist remarks, and you're only partially correct...
As of January 2020, we decided to no longer be a married entity, as stated in our court papers. It was agreed upon.
The charges she put on the cards were AFTER the agreed upon date of separation, and without my knowledge or consent.
One card showed whom owned each individual card, and my card had 0% usage, whereas hers showed 100% of the charges.
The rest I provided evidence for to show that I couldn't have been the party using the cards out of state.
I spent nearly 3 months forensically auditing the accounts when I left and I made ALL SORTS of spreadsheets that documented everything out to the penny ONLY focusing on stuff POST January 2020.
So yes...I have her lying in FILED court documents.
I have texts that contradict her written testimony IN OFFICIAL FILED court documents.
I have false bill tallies that she presented me with to ACTIVELY TRY AND DECEIVE ME to where the money was going.
And SOMEHOW, the lawyers can't seem to get anything done........

For a bunch of guys that own more firepower than some small countries, there's a LOT of "Roll Over And Take It" mentality here that I never expected to see......
Lawyers aren't magicians of some dark art...they're sworn to codes of conduct becoming of professionals that are defending the rights of their clients.
It's SUPPOSED to be a profession, that once you reach Judgeship, one of the highest titles in the business, you're referred to as "The Honorable Judge XYZ".
A cop can FOREVER be destroyed as a viable witness if there is ANY falsehood in their testimony in court.
It matters as a measure of Integrity.
Mine isn't a Criminal case, in which you have to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt".
We're two people trying to dissolve an agreement.
And as I told my lawyers- "If this was a partnership ANYTHING OTHER than a Marriage, she'd be in jail for Embezzlement."

Well you came here stating this was a divorce case.

 

[Spec.-K]

Well you came here stating this was a divorce case.

And that still stands...

 

[P7M13]

Lawyers aren't magicians of some dark art...they're sworn to codes of conduct becoming of professionals that are defending the rights of their clients.

LOL, you have a romantic notion of lawyers.

• It is a dark art - interpreting arcane language full of terms that date back hundreds of years to English common law, and volumes of legal code (i.e. laws that read like mumbo jumbo) that was drafted by blithering idiots in a state legislature or Congress.
• I was at the ceremony twice where my ex (a lawyer) and then my friend were sworn into the Oregon State Bar. My recollection is they swear to uphold the Constitution, and obey the Oregon State Bar Code of Conduct. There is nothing specific about defending the rights of their clients. I believe that the emphasis was "do what's right by your client." Sometimes that means the client gets the un-lubed dildo of consequences. A good attorney will speak plainly to that.
• I don't know about WA, but the Oregon State Bar has a very active addiction support program for member attorneys who have drug or alcohol problems. This is where most ethics complaints come from, so it's a self-serving program to reduce the amount of ethics problems. Back around 2000, I was told that easily 1/3 of Oregon's registered bar attorneys have substance abuse issues. The attorney who represented me in my divorce had been a severe alcoholic for many years, and had even lost his license for a few years. He was dry when I retained him.
• Based on my experience, a good attorney will present to you options about your case, including the less than ideal ones. They will likely make a 'best case' recommendation.
• Be open minded about what to do - this is why I say, "leave your passion at the door." Do not fight your own attorney on how to best win your case, because you then just become a ball and chain to them.
• If you sue an attorney, in this case, the one you complained about in the OP - unless the guy is a pariah, you'll likely severely limit the number of attorneys who willing to consider representing you. Even though attorneys in a district often face off in court, there exists a grapevine about clients and other attorneys because, like politicians, they're there for themselves first.

 

[bionic knees]

finding a lawyer to go after another lawyer will be a lot like finding a Dr. to testify angainst another Dr. good luck!

 

[Spec.-K]

LOL, you have a romantic notion of lawyers.

• It is a dark art - interpreting arcane language full of terms that date back hundreds of years to English common law, and volumes of legal code (i.e. laws that read like mumbo jumbo) that was drafted by blithering idiots in a state legislature or Congress.
• I was at the ceremony twice where my ex (a lawyer) and then my friend were sworn into the Oregon State Bar. My recollection is they swear to uphold the Constitution, and obey the Oregon State Bar Code of Conduct. There is nothing specific about defending the rights of their clients. I believe that the emphasis was "do what's right by your client." Sometimes that means the client gets the un-lubed dildo of consequences. A good attorney will speak plainly to that.
• I don't know about WA, but the Oregon State Bar has a very active addiction support program for member attorneys who have drug or alcohol problems. This is where most ethics complaints come from, so it's a self-serving program to reduce the amount of ethics problems. Back around 2000, I was told that easily 1/3 of Oregon's registered bar attorneys have substance abuse issues. The attorney who represented me in my divorce had been a severe alcoholic for many years, and had even lost his license for a few years. He was dry when I retained him.
• Based on my experience, a good attorney will present to you options about your case, including the less than ideal ones. They will likely make a 'best case' recommendation.
• Be open minded about what to do - this is why I say, "leave your passion at the door." Do not fight your own attorney on how to best win your case, because you then just become a ball and chain to them.
• If you sue an attorney, in this case, the one you complained about in the OP - unless the guy is a pariah, you'll likely severely limit the number of attorneys who willing to consider representing you. Even though attorneys in a district often face off in court, there exists a grapevine about clients and other attorneys because, like politicians, they're there for themselves first.

Thanks for your input.
Yes, some see the wording, or "spelling", to be a dark art...luckily my grandmother made sure we were well versed in the uses of words and writing.
I've had to correct my lawyers on numerous occasions, because their "spells" would have conjured my position at a point of weakness, so I had them fortify it with the proper wording...
The fact that most lawyers/politicians have "forgotten" their Code/Oath is why we MUST uphold them to that standard, and it can/SHOULD be their undoing.
The fact that 90% of Politicians violate their Oath is a travesty that we have ALLOWED.
If a cop lies ONCE, they're what's known as a Brady Cop, and CANNOT be a cop from that point forward, as they have violated their Integrity/Oath.
Politicians and Lawyers are no different.
Once this is over, I plan on broadcasting my experience with that particular lawfirm/lawyers, and staying JUST THIS SIDE of liable in doing so, because I CANNOT let ANY other person choose them and allow them do the same to that person.
I MIGHT have to even check with a lawyer before doing so, but this is NOT something I'm willing to let go of/happen to others...
You'll find that not being able to just merely "let something go" is often a trend among autistic individuals...

 

[Spec.-K]

finding a lawyer to go after another lawyer will be a lot like finding a Dr. to testify angainst another Dr. good luck!

I don't need luck. I merely need someone that's willing to call another lawyer out on their gross misconduct, so that people can't say- "90% give the others a bad name."
It's only allowed because we allow it...besides...they're insured against it...they can just up their premium a little if they want to be POS's...

 

[MichaelH]

My theory is that all lawyer jokes originate with divorce lawyers.

Maybe your lawyer screwed the pooch, maybe they didn't. Problem with claims against lawyers is that there has to be a pretty clear case of negligence, and clear damages and not strategic decisions based on cost, etc. that one can critique in hindsight.

Cases in Washington take a long time and because they have a more thorough discovery process than Oregon they cost more. Your lawyers probably weren't lying, any divorce can be resolved in six months if the parties are willing to resolve it. If the other side was unreasonable, or the other side, thinks that you were being unreasonable, then you're not gonna settle. A more specific problem is that your case was probably venued in Cowlitz County. Last I knew there were only four judges in a county full of tweakers and junkies's on the nod, meaning that those four judges are constantly busy handling criminal cases where if the defendant's case isn't heard in a certain timeframe those people are gonna get released. What that means is that you're not gonna get a trial scheduled for a long time, and sometimes that trial date is gonna get cancelled because a criminal case needs to be heard first. Usually people who are getting divorced don't want to go to trial, because it's really expensive to do that. Without that threat of a very expensive thing happening in the very near future people tend to stay unreasonable. When one of the parties is in a divorce case is unreasonable it is gonna take longer. Honestly 20 K is pretty inexpensive for a divorce that is at all contested, even if it settles at the end.

 

[User 1234]

Keep in mind that in court what matters isn't what's true, it's what you can prove. And even when a party has solid evidence it doesn't prove much when the fact finder ignores it for whatever reason.

Just because the feedback you get from people here is not gleeful does not mean it is pessimistic or defeatist. The litigation system is terrible. It's simply what America came up with to discourage self help in the streets. It is the legal system, not the justice system, even though the results occasionally overlap. I have seen horribly incompetent lawyers get good results for their clients and have seen skilled professional lawyers get scolded by judges on a whim. The system is not 100% accurate even if your evidence really shows what you believe it does. Or perhaps there were reasons that in your specific case that evidence was irrelevant or inadmissible.

Let it go. Seriously. Think consciously about your own emotional investment in this and let it go. How are you going to benefit from a campaign against your former lawyers? Unless they were stealing from your client trust deposits it's highly unlikely that your efforts will result in discipline or financial gain.

I hope that your future brightens and the person who you described is no longer a thorn in your side.

 

[spookshack]

View: https://youtu.be/n0CmqdivcaY?si=8Qac2jZpOmA8y5g7

 

[NOC]

Let me start by introducing myself as a civil litigator in practice in California since 1983. I started out in family law and couldn't stand it. I believe laws are heavily stacked against men and I cannot believe what women get away with in divorce; in at least two oregon cases of which I'm intimately familiar the women committed crimes against their husbands and the judge didn't care nor did the DA.

It isn't clear from your description of events whether your divorce is final and you have a judgment or stipulated agreement or whether your case is still pending. If the latter is imagine you will be looking for someone to get the dissolution finalized. Likely a different lawyer than who you need to pursue the malpractice case. You will be hiring a malpractice lawyer and another lawyer to serve as an expert witness whose opinion will be the bedrock of your case. Arguments made by your lawyer have to be supported by an expert (another lawyer) who can articulate a theory of how your divorce lawyer 's conduct fell below the standard of care and that his conduct directly caused or contributed to an unnecessarily negative outcome for you.

If your case is final then part of the malpractice analysis will be an evaluation of the result. If the result is in a reasonable range then no damages. If the delay in case resolution can be at all attributed to factors beyond control of your counsel then no liability for that element of your claim will be found. Malpractice cases are complex because you have to prove negligence, causation of specific damages and the damages have to be proven (these are all separate analyzes. ) i know this because i spent the first four years of my career defending lawyers and real estate brokers in malpractice cases.

Two other considerations i haven't seen in this discussion:
1) attorneys fees are often provided for in attorney retention agreements to the prevailing party. This means you have to win and as plaintiff you have the burden of proof. If you lose you pay the defendant's attorneys fees. By the time you get through trial that will be low-mid 6 figures. The amount will generally be determined by the judge post trial in what is called a motion to tax costs. If you win you get your fees same deal. Given the fairly low damage amount pending if your case is strong his insurer will want to settle rather than defend and try a loser case. There will be a confidentiality clause or no settlement will happen. Which brings me to the second point.
2) Malpractice policies usually contain consent clauses, the insurer will need the defendant's consent to settle. Once the defendant pays his deductible (typically 10-25K) he has little incentive to settle. He can push the case to trial in spite of what his insurer wants. At that point you have to try the case; if you dismiss without an agreement to the contrary he is the prevailing party and you owe him fees.

The above is not legal advice, I am not licensed in Washington and not in an attorney-client relationship with anyone on this forum. The above simply states part of what your new lawyer will be looking at in addition to the complex set of facts well beyond what can be analyzed in this forum context. You pays your money and you takes your chances.

If all you want is some money back from your soon to be former lawyer you might want to talk to your new lawyer about fee arbitration. It's my sense from your comments that wouldn't resolve this for you. The reason lawyer jokes are funny is that they contain a good bit of truth.

My favorite: what is the difference between a lawyer and a leach? The leach stops sucking blood when the host dies.

One final comment: you asked a group of strangers for advice and you have objected to many of the thoughtful responses given and even questioned the character of some of those folks. Perhaps you might reconsider your approach. Good luck, you will need it, nothing is certain when you go in front of a jury (or, sadly many judges) regardless of your belief in the righteousness of your cause.

 

[Mikej]

Thank you for taking the time write that whole response. Very informative.

My favorite: what is the difference between a lawyer and a leach? The leach stops sucking blood when the host dies.

I aways liked...Why do they bury Lawyers 12' deep when they die, instead of 6' deep?

Because, deep down, lawyers ARE good people.