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Our state laws regarding the private selling of firearms have already affected my gun ownership.
I no longer do much in the buying / fixing up of / trading of older .22 rifles and shotguns.
It just is too much of a hassle to do so with a $300 or less firearm.
Andy
I no longer do much in the buying / fixing up of / trading of older .22 rifles and shotguns.
It just is too much of a hassle to do so with a $300 or less firearm.
Andy
Up until a couple years ago I was an Oregonian with a dual existence in California. Back and forth weekly/monthly for years.
I also have a chl - so that was even more obnoxious. Living somewhere where you see the slow burn of rights is kinda like a frog in a hot pot from the start. Don't even realize it's hot. Moving to a more restrictive state - and getting used to it would be like a frog jumping into a hot tub. Sure it's pretty warm, but hey - could be worse.
Now try jumping between a fairly free state and a frigging steamer pot every month for years.
And to be honest - I did slip up more than once.
And now ammo is f2f - ffl - no online. And that's all they have.
I also have a chl - so that was even more obnoxious. Living somewhere where you see the slow burn of rights is kinda like a frog in a hot pot from the start. Don't even realize it's hot. Moving to a more restrictive state - and getting used to it would be like a frog jumping into a hot tub. Sure it's pretty warm, but hey - could be worse.
Now try jumping between a fairly free state and a frigging steamer pot every month for years.
And to be honest - I did slip up more than once.
And now ammo is f2f - ffl - no online. And that's all they have.
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I guess it depends on how restrictive, but using some of the states with seriously screwed up laws (e.g., California, New Jersey, New York, Hawaiʻi, et al.) as a guide, it would be pretty dramatic:
- About a third, give or take, of our collection is NFA-registered (an MG, several silencers, several SBRs, a SBS, an AOW). Many of these states do not allow most, if not all, of items in that legal category.
- Both adults conceal carry, essentially, everyday and some of those states make CCW/CHL very obnoxious.
- The majority of our private collection do not accept standard capacity magazines, but those that do, we have a bunch for each firearm.
- Almost all of our shooting is done on private land we own; I have no idea what impact that would have, but I have to imagine some of those states would restrict said for various reasons.
- We have a side business that is an 01 FFL dealer. The first couple years we were pretty active with that side hustle, but had to slow it down in 2020 to handle the veritable deluge of bad stuff going down then. So would annoying laws be the final push to hang it up? Maybe, maybe not.
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Effect my life? Not at all.
Affect my life? Greatly.
Yes, there is a difference, and yes, I am OCD about words.
Affect my life? Greatly.
Yes, there is a difference, and yes, I am OCD about words.
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I would post my quippy crap on a knitting forum is what.
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Yep, they're different. And l admit to getting the two occaisionaly mixed up.
Kinda like etymology and entomology... which is ironic because one of them is the study of words and their origins.
The other is bugs.
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I am terrible with spelling and worse, pronunciation (I have speech problems and had a speech therapist as a child, I am thinking at least part of that is probably due to hearing deficits early on that went undetected - to this day I also have problems with accents and especially if someone talks too fast), which is why I rely on google and spell checkers.
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A lot. I can tell you from experience. Moving to a more restrictive state can be excruciating. I can remember looking at the laws for "features" that a shotgun could have right after moving to a more restrictive state. IIRC, I just wanted a pistol grip, folding stock, extended magazine and a red dot or a laser. I seem to recall I could only have two out of that list. I never did buy and assemble that shotgun. I don't think I bought a single gun while I lived there. I went shooting maybe once or twice a year. Since moving here, I've bought and sold a few dozen guns. Since the latest round of new laws here, I've slowed down again. That's probably part of what they wanted, so I shouldn't let that happen, but here I am.
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Gun control laws, especially BGC, may have slowed down some of us, and/or affected how many guns we have (depth), but the riots/etc. grew the number of gun owners (breadth). We are still a minority that is much smaller percentage wise than in past decades and will probably continue to shrink over time.
And no, sixty million gun owners should not be ignored, even if only 10% of those are militant about gun ownership/rights, they still outnumber LEOs and the Military by more than 2:1. That is why some want to disarm us, even if it takes generations. They will keep at it, bit by bit.
And no, sixty million gun owners should not be ignored, even if only 10% of those are militant about gun ownership/rights, they still outnumber LEOs and the Military by more than 2:1. That is why some want to disarm us, even if it takes generations. They will keep at it, bit by bit.
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A lot.
A law on the books that you're sneaking around is terrible to someone with integrity. Outlaws get used to it.
Want to make a nation of people who don't care about the law? Pass laws the people have to pretend they're not breaking.
A law on the books that you're sneaking around is terrible to someone with integrity. Outlaws get used to it.
Want to make a nation of people who don't care about the law? Pass laws the people have to pretend they're not breaking.
Member 34319
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I moved from Nevada to Oregon.
I thought I would be worse off in Oregon, but that wasn't the biggest factor for the move.
Quality of life was. There is much more to offer in the state of Oregon that simply does not exist in Nevada.
In the time I've been gone, Nevada has all but caught up to Oregon in terms of gun laws.
The taxes there are worse for firearm ownership and they tax transfers now I believe. I'm actually mildly better off in the more liberal state of Oregon than I was in Nevada in terms of firearms. Yes Oregon has higher taxes overall, but if only looking at firearms, the sales tax and transfer tax can add up to 10% to a purchase. Ammo is taxed, parts are taxed, etc etc.
Nevada has also looked at banning suppressors and such last I heard. Oregon hasn't last I looked. They both likely want to, but at least for now Oregon seems to be better.
Another thing this state has, at least compared to northern Nevada, better gun ranges. Vegas has a good amount as does it's outskirts, but surprisingly to myself, Oregon is pretty well off in terms of rebuttable gun ranges. The public lands in Nevada are massive, but recent laws have taken most of not all of the closer areas away. Public land in Oregon is still as good if not better.
If I was moving to a state like California, the parts of my life outside of my hobby of firearms must be greatly improved by that move, to consider it.
I thought I would be worse off in Oregon, but that wasn't the biggest factor for the move.
Quality of life was. There is much more to offer in the state of Oregon that simply does not exist in Nevada.
In the time I've been gone, Nevada has all but caught up to Oregon in terms of gun laws.
The taxes there are worse for firearm ownership and they tax transfers now I believe. I'm actually mildly better off in the more liberal state of Oregon than I was in Nevada in terms of firearms. Yes Oregon has higher taxes overall, but if only looking at firearms, the sales tax and transfer tax can add up to 10% to a purchase. Ammo is taxed, parts are taxed, etc etc.
Nevada has also looked at banning suppressors and such last I heard. Oregon hasn't last I looked. They both likely want to, but at least for now Oregon seems to be better.
Another thing this state has, at least compared to northern Nevada, better gun ranges. Vegas has a good amount as does it's outskirts, but surprisingly to myself, Oregon is pretty well off in terms of rebuttable gun ranges. The public lands in Nevada are massive, but recent laws have taken most of not all of the closer areas away. Public land in Oregon is still as good if not better.
If I was moving to a state like California, the parts of my life outside of my hobby of firearms must be greatly improved by that move, to consider it.
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It would affect my life quite a bit since restrictive gun laws go hand in hand with other liberty restricting rules and laws. If Washington approached California's restrictions (and they sure are trying) I would likely be looking at a move to a friendlier state but the guns laws would be just one reason, not THE reason.
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For ME it's all about the freedom of the National Forest.
For over 40+ years of my life in Oregon I have been able to recreate, hunt, camp. fish, shoot, UNINHIBITED regardless of of the laws - which have never affected me other than SB941 - which has only affected my ability to buy guns and not shoot them.
I read about other states and how they have such 'great' gun laws - and then only to find out people have nowhere to go 'express' these great gun 'laws' except at a range with high prices and sometimes a 25 yard maximum distance to shoot.
Heck, I equate shooting restricted to a range as owning an off road vehicle and having to pay to use it in a 'designated' area (which I have heard about) - or any outdoor activity that one must pay to undertake.
For over 40+ years of my life in Oregon I have been able to recreate, hunt, camp. fish, shoot, UNINHIBITED regardless of of the laws - which have never affected me other than SB941 - which has only affected my ability to buy guns and not shoot them.
I read about other states and how they have such 'great' gun laws - and then only to find out people have nowhere to go 'express' these great gun 'laws' except at a range with high prices and sometimes a 25 yard maximum distance to shoot.
Heck, I equate shooting restricted to a range as owning an off road vehicle and having to pay to use it in a 'designated' area (which I have heard about) - or any outdoor activity that one must pay to undertake.
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LOL, I've only had my quads offroad twice where I didn't have to pay a fee or have a pass. And of course, driving them on the road, while exiting...
I lived in California for the first 61 years of my life. How did it affect me? It ultimately drove me out. I got tired of paying higher and higher taxes while watching the democrat legislature stealing the money to bribe their pet constituencies. Gas taxes that were supposed to used for road upkeep that ended up funding
'studies" and commissions on homelessness or undocumented (euphemism for illegal) aliens. Onerous gun laws written and voted on by people willfully ignorant about guns. In the PRK, you couldn't have magazines with a capacity over 10 rounds unless you owned them prior to 2000. "Assault" weapons were restricted as far back as 1989 80% lowers are under threat because of the idiot Kevin DeLeon "ghost guns" that have a 30 caliber clip that can shoot 30 rounds in half a second. And nobody calls these cretins on their ignorant stupidity.
So, when Gunmaggeddon passed in 2016 I said "We're out of here!" We found a home in the Couve and only look back to the PRK to try to get friends and family to move out. In California Full auto, Short barrel shotguns, Silencers, SBR's, Thermal rifle scopes and "assault weapons" are all illegal for the little people
They have the "Roster", a steadily shrinking list of handguns that are "safe" for the little people to buy. Our vice-president elect, as California's AG in 2014, IIRC, insured that roster would shrink by mandating that only guns with microstamping ( a real sounding, but non-existent technology) can be added to the safe handgun roster . Note that I said safe for little people. Law enforcement and other government types can buy, use and carry non-rostered handguns. And they could sell them to little people on the side for a while till a few cops got caught doing that as a side business. When I left the PRK you could buy one new handgun every 30 days. Hard luck if a sale popped up a week after you bought your nice new XD. Some gun shops would take a lay away but others wouldn't because the law was so ambiguous and the Cal DOJ refused to give any solid guidance, saying there are 58 DA's in California who can interpret the law as they see fit.
Stupid gun laws
Crowding
Crappy roads
Failing infrastructure
Pollution
Schools hamstrung by lawyers and the teachers unions
Homeless trash taking over parks, sidewalks and trails
democrats taxing everything to throw tax dollars at everyone EXCEPT for the people actually paying the taxes.
It all got to be too much
So... We left
'studies" and commissions on homelessness or undocumented (euphemism for illegal) aliens. Onerous gun laws written and voted on by people willfully ignorant about guns. In the PRK, you couldn't have magazines with a capacity over 10 rounds unless you owned them prior to 2000. "Assault" weapons were restricted as far back as 1989 80% lowers are under threat because of the idiot Kevin DeLeon "ghost guns" that have a 30 caliber clip that can shoot 30 rounds in half a second. And nobody calls these cretins on their ignorant stupidity.
So, when Gunmaggeddon passed in 2016 I said "We're out of here!" We found a home in the Couve and only look back to the PRK to try to get friends and family to move out. In California Full auto, Short barrel shotguns, Silencers, SBR's, Thermal rifle scopes and "assault weapons" are all illegal for the little people
They have the "Roster", a steadily shrinking list of handguns that are "safe" for the little people to buy. Our vice-president elect, as California's AG in 2014, IIRC, insured that roster would shrink by mandating that only guns with microstamping ( a real sounding, but non-existent technology) can be added to the safe handgun roster . Note that I said safe for little people. Law enforcement and other government types can buy, use and carry non-rostered handguns. And they could sell them to little people on the side for a while till a few cops got caught doing that as a side business. When I left the PRK you could buy one new handgun every 30 days. Hard luck if a sale popped up a week after you bought your nice new XD. Some gun shops would take a lay away but others wouldn't because the law was so ambiguous and the Cal DOJ refused to give any solid guidance, saying there are 58 DA's in California who can interpret the law as they see fit.
Stupid gun laws
Crowding
Crappy roads
Failing infrastructure
Pollution
Schools hamstrung by lawyers and the teachers unions
Homeless trash taking over parks, sidewalks and trails
democrats taxing everything to throw tax dollars at everyone EXCEPT for the people actually paying the taxes.
It all got to be too much
So... We left
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The problem is that it is likely not just restrictive gun laws. Usually you can get a good feel for the level of freedom a state offers by their gun laws.
Take the shhhh...err...crap hole that is California...Some of the worst gun laws in the country. And it's a leftist hell hole that is getting worse and worse. By every meaningful measure California is failing. We have some of the worst schools, the worst poverty, the worst homelessness, the highest taxation rates, the worst bureaucracy, worst infrastructure, a Covid strategy that has completely failed, etc. People and businesses are leaving in droves because the state sucks so bad. And it literally used to be one of the most prosperous states in the union.
So crappy gun laws are just a drop in the monumental bucket of crap that this state has become. But imagine having some other hobby that you absolutely loved but that was not only vilified by the governmental overlords of your state, but you also ran the risk of going to jail for it because the laws surrounding your hobby were so onerous and convoluted?
Imagine not being able to fully protect your family and loved ones because you have to obtain permission to exercise what is supposed to be a constitutional right to carry, but the overlords won't grant you that permission...and not because you're not a law abiding citizen, but because they don't FEEL you should be able to.
Imagine not being able to buy a gun that is available to almost every other citizen in every other state, because the government says that the particular gun you want doesn't meet THEIR standards.
Imagine not being able to have the ammo you need to defend your family, shipped to your door. Instead you have to go down to the local government approved store and fill out paperwork for a background check, pay fees for that check, and pay a higher price for the ammo because you can't source it on the open market.
How much does all this affect one's life? I guess it all depends on how active your hobby is and how much you rely on it for the defense of yourself and your family. But the difference of all of this is the difference between being a citizen and being a subject. And constantly being treated like a subject really wears you down as time goes by.
WOLVERINES!
Take the shhhh...err...crap hole that is California...Some of the worst gun laws in the country. And it's a leftist hell hole that is getting worse and worse. By every meaningful measure California is failing. We have some of the worst schools, the worst poverty, the worst homelessness, the highest taxation rates, the worst bureaucracy, worst infrastructure, a Covid strategy that has completely failed, etc. People and businesses are leaving in droves because the state sucks so bad. And it literally used to be one of the most prosperous states in the union.
So crappy gun laws are just a drop in the monumental bucket of crap that this state has become. But imagine having some other hobby that you absolutely loved but that was not only vilified by the governmental overlords of your state, but you also ran the risk of going to jail for it because the laws surrounding your hobby were so onerous and convoluted?
Imagine not being able to fully protect your family and loved ones because you have to obtain permission to exercise what is supposed to be a constitutional right to carry, but the overlords won't grant you that permission...and not because you're not a law abiding citizen, but because they don't FEEL you should be able to.
Imagine not being able to buy a gun that is available to almost every other citizen in every other state, because the government says that the particular gun you want doesn't meet THEIR standards.
Imagine not being able to have the ammo you need to defend your family, shipped to your door. Instead you have to go down to the local government approved store and fill out paperwork for a background check, pay fees for that check, and pay a higher price for the ammo because you can't source it on the open market.
How much does all this affect one's life? I guess it all depends on how active your hobby is and how much you rely on it for the defense of yourself and your family. But the difference of all of this is the difference between being a citizen and being a subject. And constantly being treated like a subject really wears you down as time goes by.
WOLVERINES!
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I agree 100%. By extension, l use gun control as a litmus test for every politician begging for a job. Their stance on gun control gives me a pretty good indication of exactly what they think of me and their intended constituency overall.
Am l an adult with free will?
Or am l a subject? A charge who needs to be taken care of.
It makes me a de facto one-issue voter, but it's a big issue and one that has an outsized EFFECT on honest citizens.
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I find there incorrect use of their vocabulary most..... disturbing.
Yep, ol' Deef is onna knitting tear.... you gots cold birdie legs, Deef got yer hook-up in a variety of choices!
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