Hacker? Farmer? Maybe Us Too. Right To Repair.

RicInOR · May 28, 2021

With the powers that be controlling that any changes to the control systems can and will void the warrantee,
will you root your phone, tractor, car ?

Is that hacking?

Ura-Ki · May 30, 2021

It comes down to ownership, once you as a consumer OWN a product free and clear, you own the rights to alter, modify, or change anything you wish, Period!
These companies claiming "Intellectual rights" are full of sh!t, once they sell something for profit, they loose any rights to that piece of property, even with a warranty! Declaring that only authorized repairs or personal may make repairs or,........is wrong, and likely illegal!

Forcing this on owners is bad business for those companies, and will force customers to buy from other companies, who might profit greatly! As a Caterpillar owner, I have never had any issues dealing with them on new or old alike, and they make no requirements of me outside of warranty, and even then, I'm not blocked from changing things if needed!
Hell, I had them rebuild and "Hot Rod" my 3300 series from 500 to 890 H.P. and they were happy to do it, and happy to charge me for it too, Win win for both!

ilikegunspdx · May 31, 2021

Ura-Ki said:
It comes down to ownership, once you as a consumer OWN a product free and clear, you own the rights to alter, modify, or change anything you wish, Period!
These companies claiming "Intellectual rights" are full of sh!t, once they sell something for profit, they loose any rights to that piece of property, even with a warranty! Declaring that only authorized repairs or personal may make repairs or,........is wrong, and likely illegal!

Forcing this on owners is bad business for those companies, and will force customers to buy from other companies, who might profit greatly! As a Caterpillar owner, I have never had any issues dealing with them on new or old alike, and they make no requirements of me outside of warranty, and even then, I'm not blocked from changing things if needed!
Hell, I had them rebuild and "Hot Rod" my 3300 series from 500 to 890 H.P. and they were happy to do it, and happy to charge me for it too, Win win for both!

I know with car tech the manufacturers do claim the software rights to the computers. Sometimes the code leaks out or is broken into and third parties create programs Fe to remap the fuel program, increase boost etc, to make more power.

Mostly though the manufacturers design in things to make it extremely difficult for owners and independent shops to repair (software, hardware, and parts). BMW for example is notorious for this so u have to bring into dealer to do anything. For some cars such as vw auto group (audi/vw/skoda/lambo/porsche etc etc) u can buy workaround computer programs to access the computer and change settings etc similar to what a dealer can do. I have for vw auto group and it works ok. It works really good for diagnosis though and avoids having to go to the dealer who many times will fix the wrong thing and u end up bringing it back over and over.

kmk1012 · May 31, 2021

Ura-Ki said:
It comes down to ownership, once you as a consumer OWN a product free and clear, you own the rights to alter, modify, or change anything you wish, Period!
These companies claiming "Intellectual rights" are full of sh!t, once they sell something for profit, they loose any rights to that piece of property, even with a warranty! Declaring that only authorized repairs or personal may make repairs or,........is wrong, and likely illegal!

Forcing this on owners is bad business for those companies, and will force customers to buy from other companies, who might profit greatly! As a Caterpillar owner, I have never had any issues dealing with them on new or old alike, and they make no requirements of me outside of warranty, and even then, I'm not blocked from changing things if needed!
Hell, I had them rebuild and "Hot Rod" my 3300 series from 500 to 890 H.P. and they were happy to do it, and happy to charge me for it too, Win win for both!

Only to a point does someone have the right to modify or change as they please. Have you looked into a DEF/DPF delete on a diesel? You can obtain far better mileage but it's a FEDERAL law that can/will get you. I believe it's over $4500 fine if anyone touches the emissions on their diesel. I looked into it on my truck and decided not to (still under bumper to bumper warranty, as well as shops required to report if seen)

Ura-Ki · May 31, 2021

kmk1012 said:
Only to a point does someone have the right to modify or change as they please. Have you looked into a DEF/DPF delete on a diesel? You can obtain far better mileage but it's a FEDERAL law that can/will get you. I believe it's over $4500 fine if anyone touches the emissions on their diesel. I looked into it on my truck and decided not to (still under bumper to bumper warranty, as well as shops required to report if seen)

That's a gov. deal, not the manufacture! Even then, it's also only applicable in areas that test!
Took all the emissions off my Sprinter, it's well outside the warranty, and it's actually cleaner then it was with all that crap on it! Plus, it gets better fuel millage and had way more power too! Nobody has said a word about removing the crap, and I don't have to worry about testing ether!

kmk1012 · May 31, 2021

Ura-Ki said:
That's a gov. deal, not the manufacture! Even then, it's also only applicable in areas that test!
Took all the emissions off my Sprinter, it's well outside the warranty, and it's actually cleaner then it was with all that crap on it! Plus, it gets better fuel millage and had way more power too! Nobody has said a word about removing the crap, and I don't have to worry about testing ether!

Sounds promising, no testing in Linn Co and my '19 6.7 could use a little help. 935 ft/lbs and 450hp just isint "quite" enough. It only spins them at 40mph when I gun it.

Ura-Ki · May 31, 2021

kmk1012 said:
Sounds promising, no testing in Linn Co and my '19 6.7 could use a little help. 935 ft/lbs and 450hp just isint "quite" enough. It only spins them at 40mph when I gun it.

Hey, I went from 132 HP to 198, and fuel millage went from 19 mpg, to 24!

revjen45 · Jun 1, 2021

Note that Harley Davidson won't work on the older bikes, so you're stuck with indies or yourself. In ~ 2006 I took my '79 Ironhead into the HD dealer and they said I knew more about it than they did. OTOH, I have found an indie HD shop that is actually honest and competent, so it ain't ALL bad.

JustSomeGuy · Jun 1, 2021

Hence the reason my ranch is running on old equipment that doesn't rely on computerized systems. It's much cheaper for me to buy older equipment that's in restorable condition, do a ground up restoration, maintain a stockpile of parts and keep a mechanic on staff than it is to to buy new and get bent over by the dealers and manufacturers for repairs.

Also, it fits my MO of keeping the operation viable if/when SHTF.