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Gunsmith near Portland: hk91 needs some help

Discussion in 'Maintenance & Gunsmithing' started by djm68, Oct 2, 2010.

  1. djm68

    djm68 Portland, OR Member

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    Any leads on a smith in/around Portland with knowledge of hk91s?

    At the range today, my 91 failed to fire. I checked things out and it looks like my cocking handle is not going all the way forward. I cleared the chamber and inspected the round -- no strike on the primer at all. Tried one more round, same thing happened. I took apart the gun this evening and everything looks ok -- but clearly something is amiss. Need professional attention.

    Appreciate any leads.

    Thanks,
    DJM
     
  2. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    I have no leads for you, but I may have some quick things for you to check that might help you save some money.

    My first guess is you may have a bunch of crud in the chamber area preventing the bolt and bolt carrier from riding all the way forward. I started experiencing some shallow primer strikes recently in mine. Using a box of high quality R1M1 SA ammo, I had 5 of the first 10 rounds fail to fire. I merely field stripped the rifle and cleaned the chamber area with some bore patches wrapped around my finger. The HK91's delayed blowback system can be very dirty, so get way in there. You'll clean and clean and just when you think you've got it, you'll find more. After I did this, I finished the remainder of the ammo from the same box, and experienced no further FTFs, or with any box since then.

    Some more things to look at... You may have excessive bolt gap, have you checked it? Your bolt or firing pin may be broken, have you inspected these? Is there an obstruction in the cocking tube preventing the carrier from riding all of the way forward?

    Anyways, I hope this helps.

    Keith
     
  3. The Cheese

    The Cheese somewhere special Member

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    you can try Pat at Oregon Research Labs LLC/PCArms. He is an HK kinda guy and would probably know what to do. He also has a nice collection of posties. Oregon_Research_Labs-LLC

    Also if you have been shooting South African ammo, it dirties the heck out of the chamber/roller locker area. I would try cleaning that, then go from there. But Pat knows his HK's. Only downside is that he is Waaay the F out in Vernonia.
     
  4. sava6e

    sava6e Portland Member

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    I'm not licensed, but I've built a few cetme's, it does peak my curiosity as to why this is happening, typically hK's are very well built, that is if it's a true hk. If you would, have you had this problem before with this rifle? Are you using different ammo than before? Can you tell if the bolt is locking into battery?
     
  5. djm68

    djm68 Portland, OR Member

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    Guys,

    Thanks for the replies and info. I have not been able to verify this for sure, but I do believe I have found and fixed the problem. While inspecting the rifle further, I noticed while looking at the injection port area, that the bolt was not fully forward and locked. I then noticed that the spring which "actuates" the cocking handle had popped out of the small grove on the handle. This was preventing the handle and thus the bolt from going all the way forward. Using some needle nose, I was able to get the springs "tail" set back in the groove and now the bolt goes fully forward and locks into battery as expected. I have not been able to verify this fixed the problem, but I am fairly certain this was the cause. I will post my results when I get a chance to test the rifle.

    Thanks,
    DJM
     
  6. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    All right then, it looks like you probably got it :) . They are really simple rifles once you delve into them.

    Keith
     
  7. djm68

    djm68 Portland, OR Member

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    Yes, I think that was the problem. The 91 is a simple rifle, one of the reasons I decided to get into this platform. I like to know how my guns work and how to do most small service myself -- nice feeling to figure out the problem on my own. I think, for piece of mind, I will replace the cocking level spring -- when it had popped out, I think it took a little abuse from a few rounds before it tweaked itself into such a position as to stop the fun. The cocking lever surface has some (light) scratches on it, which are clearly from where the spring was rubbing before it fully popped out.

    BTW, this is actually a PTR91...but, for all intents a purposes an HK91.

    Cheers,
    DJM
     
  8. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    Yup, same thing. Some folks say better than an HK, actually. I went with an EBO (Greek) built SAR-8, because of the lifetime Springfield warranty that follows the rifle.

    Keith
     
  9. djm68

    djm68 Portland, OR Member

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    Just wanted to follow-up:

    Took the PTR out to the range and put 100 rounds of SA R1M1 through the rifle without a hitch. So, the charging handle spring was indeed the problem.

    Thanks for all the info, guys.

    Best,
    DJM
     
  10. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    :thumbup:
     
  11. billcoe

    billcoe PDX Platinum Supporter Platinum Supporter

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    from Welcome to PTR 91 Inc. Home to the PTR-91 Series of Rifles

    "Ammunition:

    PTR 91 INC, Rifles are newly manufactured and are made to exacting standards and close tolerances. These rifles are made to function with commercial factory.308 cal ammunition. We do not recommend the use of reloads or of surplus ammunition. If surplus ammunition is used beware that this ammunition varies from manufacturer to manufacture, lot to lot, year to year, components used and processes in manufacturing. All this ammunition is not made to exact specification. We have found that some of this ammunition has caused problems in our rifles because they use a tar like sealant in their water proofing. When this ammunition is used in our rifles the sealant melts and coats the chamber. This causes failures to extract and to chamber. Afterwards any ammunition that is used will have the same problem if the chamber and the bore are not cleaned thoroughly. At this time we have identified the following types of ammunition that are known to cause problems in our rifles:

    * South African
    * Winchester white boxes marked 7.62,
    * Venezuela Cavim
    * Austrian (Hirtenberger)
    * Some lots of German
    * British (under powered) will not cycle action
    * Indian (Over powered)"


    Cheer!

    I love my PTR
     
  12. djm68

    djm68 Portland, OR Member

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    Sorry, I should have posted more detail on my original post. When I experienced the problem I was using *commercial* ammo. My failure had nothing to do with SA ammo, in-fact I have never run any milsurp in my PTR until after I had fixed the problem with the spring.

    In any case, I am lucky in having an earlier PTR that has no issues with SA ammo. I've posted my recent (positive) experience with SA ammo here:

    Range report: SA R1M1 with an AW PTR91

    Cheers,
    DJM
     
  13. billcoe

    billcoe PDX Platinum Supporter Platinum Supporter

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    Ahhh, thanks. When I saw the SA part of "high quality R1M1 SA ammo" I was thinking you were running South African. My post is the PTR makers site of things not recommended, South African heading the list.

    Mt PTR is one of the tricky ones with hit or miss ammo, when it jams it's a real pisser, but is 100% good with Federal. Any Federal. (so far). I love shooting it and it's real accurate with iron sights. I put a Hensolt scope on it and like to shoot it as much as I do this panther which takes the ammo I can't run through the PTR.
    308_sniper_rifle.jpg
     
  14. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    That was me, not the OP, experiencing issues with SA R1M1 in a Greek SAR. In my rifle's case, it was shallow primer strikes caused by soot buildup in the chamber area. After I did a deep cleaning of this area, there were no further problems.

    Bill, is that a Hensoldt scope in your picture? If so, is it military, or civilian? Its alot bigger than the Fero-Z I'm using.

    Keith
     
  15. djm68

    djm68 Portland, OR Member

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    Bummer about your PTR; I am pretty pleased that mine runs the SA without issue. Until recently I had been running BVAC once fire brass reloads -- they are "commercial" and I hear it runs fine in the finicky PTRs; it costs just about the same as milsurp. Might want to give it a go.

    I really like shooting my PTR, esp. since adding the Hensoldt, HK wide forearm + bipod, real hk buttstock and wide buttpad. The hk stock has a much better buffer which greatly reduces felt recoil.

    My little friend:

    Cheers,
    DJM
     
  16. billcoe

    billcoe PDX Platinum Supporter Platinum Supporter

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    Hi Keith, that's a Leupold 6.5-20x50 MK-4 side focus and TMR Reticle on a DPMS Panther in .308. My PTR has the same Hensolt that DJM has up there. Great little German mil surplus scope. djm, thanks also for the heads up on the hk butt stock recoil thing, I don't know if I'll upgrade....but it's nice to know. I'd shot the full auto HK G3 version quite a bit when I was in the service, but had totally forgot the Luftwaffe dudes warnings about slicing your finger drawing back the bolt - till the first time I shot the PTR! LOL. It all came flooding back.
     
  17. djm68

    djm68 Portland, OR Member

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    Just a note on the Hendsolt Z series of scopes: Hendsolt is sub-division of Zeiss, Hendsolt being the division that handles military contracts. For the money it is hard to beat the Hendsolt -- for under $400 you can still get a new Z24 (the best of the series) with the original German mount, with Zeiss optics quality. I was amazed at the clarity when I mounted mine to my PTR. Only drawback is they are fixed to 4x.

    The stock tip: you can still grab original butt stock for well under $20, and that includes the buffer -- grab a few while you still can!

    Cheers,
    DJM
     
  18. trainsktg

    trainsktg Portland OR Well-Known Member

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    Bill, I was so busy looking at that big scope, I failed to see that the rifle it was attached to was an AR ! :bluelaugh:

    I like the Hensoldt scope on my SAR, but I prefer the reticule on a Combloc scope like a PSO, TIP-2, etc. For what they are though, the FERO Z24 is an outstanding value.

    Keith