Get Ready For More Red Flag Abuse

[Maximum Magnum]

New legislation is coming and appears to have the votes to pass a filibuster.

Of note, the legislation will provide more funding to states to create and enforce so-called "red flag" laws. While these laws can seem somewhat innocuous-- much like FAPA restraining orders-- they can be rife with abuse. Anyone can tag you with a red flag complaint, and you will only know after an ex parte hearing that you weren't invited to attend that you've got 24 hours to clear out your gun collection.

The future of push of gun control isn't going to come through a massive ban and door-to-door confiscation, but rather a slow erosion of individual rights. Veterans struggling with mental illness will be the first target, then men suspected of domestic violence, then drivers who've had a DUI, then fathers who are behind on child support, etc.

Read More

 

[arakboss]

New legislation is coming and appears to have the votes to pass a filibuster.

Of note, the legislation will provide more funding to states to create and enforce so-called "red flag" laws. While these laws can seem somewhat innocuous-- much like FAPA restraining orders-- they can be rife with abuse. Anyone can tag you with a red flag complaint, and you will only know after an ex parte hearing that you weren't invited to attend that you've got 24 hours to clear out your gun collection.

The future of push of gun control isn't going to come through a massive ban and door-to-door confiscation, but rather a slow erosion of individual rights. Veterans struggling with mental illness will be the first target, then men suspected of domestic violence, then drivers who've had a DUI, then fathers who are behind on child support, etc.

Be prepared for faux 2A supporters that will come along shortly and throw their support behind targeting your list of "deplorables" for red flag abuses.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Your title says "more", do you have some examples of previous cases where red flag laws were abused that we could use in conversations with those that support them? I looked but I didn't get much sleep last night and my GoogleFu is weak sauce today

 

[arakboss]

Your title says "more", do you have some examples of previous cases where red flag laws were abused that we could use in conversations with those that support them? I looked but I didn't get much sleep last night and my GoogleFu is weak sauce today

Any use of red flag law is abuse, with that said.

Florida's red flag law, championed by Republicans, is taking guns from thousands of people | CNN Politics

Twice a week from her courtroom, Florida 13th Circuit Court Judge Denise Pomponio decides who in Hillsborough County can no longer be trusted with a gun.

www.google.com

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Any use of red flag law is abuse, with that said.

Florida's red flag law, championed by Republicans, is taking guns from thousands of people | CNN Politics

Twice a week from her courtroom, Florida 13th Circuit Court Judge Denise Pomponio decides who in Hillsborough County can no longer be trusted with a gun.

www.google.com

So using these laws to take firearms away from ANYONE, even those that have articulated a desire / plan to harm people or have a record of actually harming people is "abuse"?

Got to tell you, that's going be a hard sell

 

[arakboss]

So using these laws to take firearms away from ANYONE, even those that have articulated a desire / plan to harm people or have a record of actually harming people is "abuse"?

Got to tell you, that's going be a hard sell

I know.

 

[joshkk]

@arakboss

From the article you linked to:

"In just the last two months, she has taken away the firearm privileges of dozens of people, including a dad accused of threatening to "shoot everyone" at his son's school, a woman who police say attempted suicide and then accidentally shot her boyfriend during a struggle for her revolver, a husband who allegedly fired multiple rounds in the street to "blow off steam" after losing a family member, a bullied 13-year-old witnesses overheard saying, "If all of 8th grade is missing tomorrow you will know why," and a mother arrested for brandishing a handgun at another mom after a school bus incident between their daughters."

We don't know all the details about the "dozens of people" mentioned, but of those specific examples seem like totally legit, prime candidates for the responsible use of such laws. Do you feel that those examples constitute abuse? There are parts of the Florida law that I find over-reaching, like the one-year period for having your guns taken away, but it also sounds like there are plenty of folks who have demonstrated clear danger to themselves or others who are being disarmed and I am generally supportive of that.

 

[arakboss]

@arakboss

From the article you linked to:

"In just the last two months, she has taken away the firearm privileges of dozens of people, including a dad accused of threatening to "shoot everyone" at his son's school, a woman who police say attempted suicide and then accidentally shot her boyfriend during a struggle for her revolver, a husband who allegedly fired multiple rounds in the street to "blow off steam" after losing a family member, a bullied 13-year-old witnesses overheard saying, "If all of 8th grade is missing tomorrow you will know why," and a mother arrested for brandishing a handgun at another mom after a school bus incident between their daughters."

We don't know all the details about the "dozens of people" mentioned, but of those specific examples seem like totally legit, prime candidates for the responsible use of such laws. Do you feel that those examples constitute abuse? There are parts of the Florida law that I find over-reaching, like the one-year period for having your guns taken away, but it also sounds like there are plenty of folks who have demonstrated clear danger to themselves or others who are being disarmed and I am generally supportive of that.

A free society comes with risk, I do not support red flag laws period.

 

[joshkk]

A free society comes with risk, I do not support red flag laws period.

Do you believe that all of the specific folks referenced above should just continue to have free, open access to guns?

 

[arakboss]

Do you believe that all of the specific folks referenced above should just continue to have free, open access to guns?

Sure.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Sure.

I don't see that you and I have any middle ground on this but see no reason we can't still be friends

 

[Camelfilter]

Innocent until PROVEN GUILTY. 5th & 14th amendments to the US Constitution.

-I guess except for how other people FEEL-

 

[Knobgoblin]

Be prepared for faux 2A supporters that will come along shortly and throw their support behind targeting your list of "deplorables" for red flag abuses.

Lol.
Speaking of...

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Innocent until PROVEN GUILTY. 5th & 14th amendments to the US Constitution.

-I guess except for how other people FEEL-

Happens all the time for far less

Kalief Browder, Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

Browder was arrested for allegedly stealing a backpack. His family couldn't pay bail so he stayed in jail, reportedly enduring beatings and solitary confinement before his case was dismissed in 2013.

www.npr.org

 

[arakboss]

I don't see that you and I have any middle ground on this but see no reason we can't still be friends

I agree. Cheers.

I don't expect I will ever be invited to any bipartisan gun grabber planning sessions.

 

[Knobgoblin]

These laws ( and the traps they create) are well beyond a threat to individual firearms ownership. They pre judge anyone who is the recipient of their attention. It's a direct assault on a citizens freedom, with no provision to block, merely to undo what is automatically done in the process.

 

[arakboss]

These laws ( and the traps they create) are well beyond a threat to individual firearms ownership. They pre judge anyone who is the recipient of their attention. It's a direct assault on a citizens freedom, with no provision to block, merely to undo what is automatically done in the process.

I imagine one day they could be used to confiscate firearms from one of those nutjobs that thinks the governent is going fully-semi tyrannical.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Happens all the time for far less

Kalief Browder, Jailed For Years Without Trial, Kills Himself

Browder was arrested for allegedly stealing a backpack. His family couldn't pay bail so he stayed in jail, reportedly enduring beatings and solitary confinement before his case was dismissed in 2013.

www.npr.org

So ,
We create a better existence for all by making $hitty treatment by the legal system equal opportunity?

How bout we trash a bunch of laws that don't work first, then go from there. Continously passing new laws is only good for the lawyers who run this "version " of our country. We have more than enough laws on the books, unless you are in the business of making money from legal action.

 

[American123]

Red flag laws completely ignore the notion of due process and innocent until proven guilty. I see more "I support the second amendment but with infringements," folks also saying "red flag laws are a good idea," because the bill of rights means nothing if a person feels a certain way.

 

[SpudBob]

It elevates, IMO, the concept of probable cause for search to hearsay of ANYONE instead of a sworn officer. Now Im not saying there are not abuses by authorities but this elevates it to anyone who has a gripe with you. Thats a bit scary IMO!!!