“Fix NICS” bill.... relax, will ya?

[Will_White]

Respectfully ...

Are the Bill Of Rights all equal? Are some more equal more others? Would a crazy person who revolves inside and out of non voluntary mental holds be muzzled and prohibited from his freedom of speech? Should he be prohibited from worshiping his God?

Now change the above to voluntary mental holds. VOLS they called them. Nutty folks but not that nutty. Should THEY also be PROHIBITED from speaking from some soapbox or PROHIBITED from going to Church? How can we make ANY distinction with this?

Let's now make it worserer. I ACCUSE YOU of being nutty. I ACCUSE YOU of things you never did. I ACCUSE YOU of committing nasty things you may never do. Should YOU BE PROHIBITED from speech-a-fying or going to Church? PROHIBITED without due process?

WITHOUT ANY DUE LEGAL PROCESS? No. Such an idea would never gain any legal traction. Nor should it. So why are we so eager to prohibit the Second Amendment? Why is that different? No legal due process restricting or prohibiting a Constitutional Guarantee.

That implies and I hope I am wrong that some or a few or perhaps one Bill Of Right may be less important than other Bill Of Rights. If they through bad law can tear down on the 2nd Amendment, what does that bode for the rest of them? Evil knows no limits at all.

Remember the pesky historical fact that the Second Amendment is not about hunting.

Respectfully.

Respectfully, we aren't arguing with you on that*, we are arguing that this bill doesn't change NICS or add categories of Prohibited Persons so it doesn't cause any NEW problems.


*I'd be interested to see where your getting the information about losing firearms rights for a voluntary mental hold, and for accusations without due process because from what I know, other then "extreme risk protection orders" (which aren't in this bill), you can't. I'll admit I haven't read the actual definitions of prohibited persons so I may be wrong.

 

[HB of CJ]

Thank you Will_ White. I believe I mixed up Fed law with OR law. Oregon Senate Bill 719. I stand corrected. It is possible also that we are knee jerk reacting to EXISTING horrible Federal Laws And Regulations. Cross overs occur.

Condoning such horrible existing Federal Law is the same as endorsing. Endorsing may be the same as encouraging. Encouraging may be the same if enjoying. Which was a greater point and which this discussion is implying. Yikes!

 

[Inquisitor]

[QUOTE="Condoning such horrible existing Federal Law is the same as endorsing. Endorsing may be the same as encouraging. Encouraging may be the same if enjoying. Which was a greater point and which this discussion is implying. Yikes![/QUOTE]

Here is a summary of Federal law [Federal law [18 USC § 922 - Unlawful Acts], which already declares the following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:

i. Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year.
ii. Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs.
iii. Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution.
iv. Illegal aliens.
v. Citizens who have renounced their citizenship.
vi. Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.
vii. Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.
viii. Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.
ix. Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner.
x. Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition. Under limited conditions, relief from disability may be obtained from the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, or through a pardon, expungement, restoration of rights, or setting aside of a conviction.

We need national reciprocity! Then we need to fix 18 USC § 922 - Unlawful Acts because that law is subject to interpretation and abuse!

 

[Heyjoe]

 

[PiratePast40]

[QUOTE="Condoning such horrible existing Federal Law is the same as endorsing. Endorsing may be the same as encouraging. Encouraging may be the same if enjoying. Which was a greater point and which this discussion is implying. Yikes!

Here is a summary of Federal law [Federal law [18 USC § 922 - Unlawful Acts], which already declares the following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:

i. Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year.
ii. Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs.
iii. Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution.
iv. Illegal aliens.
v. Citizens who have renounced their citizenship.
vi. Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.
vii. Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.
viii. Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.
ix. Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner.
x. Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition. Under limited conditions, relief from disability may be obtained from the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, or through a pardon, expungement, restoration of rights, or setting aside of a conviction.

We need national reciprocity! Then we need to fix 18 USC § 922 - Unlawful Acts because that law is subject to interpretation and abuse![/QUOTE]
I don't see anything there about being a prohibited person due to a warrant for your arrest for traffic tickets.

 

[Will_White]

Here is a summary of Federal law [Federal law [18 USC § 922 - Unlawful Acts], which already declares the following classes of people are ineligible to possess, receive, ship, or transport firearms or ammunition:

i. Those convicted of crimes punishable by imprisonment for over one year.
ii. Unlawful users of certain depressant, narcotic, or stimulant drugs.
iii. Those adjudicated as mental defectives or incompetents or those committed to any mental institution.
iv. Illegal aliens.
v. Citizens who have renounced their citizenship.
vi. Those persons dishonorably discharged from the Armed Forces.
vii. Persons less than 18 years of age for the purchase of a shotgun or rifle.
viii. Persons less than 21 years of age for the purchase of a firearm that is other than a shotgun or rifle.
ix. Persons subject to a court order that restrains such persons from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner.
x. Persons convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.
Persons under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year are ineligible to receive, transport, or ship any firearm or ammunition. Under limited conditions, relief from disability may be obtained from the U.S. Secretary of the Treasury, or through a pardon, expungement, restoration of rights, or setting aside of a conviction.

We need national reciprocity! Then we need to fix 18 USC § 922 - Unlawful Acts because that law is subject to interpretation and abuse!
I don't see anything there about being a prohibited person due to a warrant for your arrest for traffic tickets.

Something Inquisitor missed is being a fugitive from justice dissallows you from owning firearms, The term "fugitive from justice" means any person who has fled from any State to avoid prosecution for a crime or to avoid giving testimony in any criminal proceeding, which applies to anyone with an outstanding warrant including for traffic violations.

 

[Inquisitor]

Something Inquisitor missed is being a fugitive from justice dissallows you from owning firearms, The term "fugitive from justice" means any person who has fled from any State to avoid prosecution for a crime or to avoid giving testimony in any criminal proceeding, which applies to anyone with an outstanding warrant including for traffic violations.

Will_White is correct. Sorry about that, the summary I posted above was from the NRA site.
Here are the actual words in the Federal law:
18 USC § 922 - Unlawful Acts
(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—

(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;

(2) who is a fugitive from justice;

(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));

(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;

(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));

(6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;

(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;

(8) who is subject to a court order that—
(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
(B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
(C)(i) includes a finding that such person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of such intimate partner or child; or
(ii) by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against such intimate partner § 922 TITLE 18—CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE Page 212 or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury; or

(9) who has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence, to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce, or possess in or affecting commerce, any firearm or ammunition; or to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

(h) It shall be unlawful for any individual, who to that individual's knowledge and while being employed for any person described in any paragraph of subsection (g) of this section, in the course of such employment—

(1) to receive, possess, or transport any firearm or ammunition in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce; or

(2) to receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.