Do we even need any gun laws?

[DuneHopper]

Do we even need any gun laws ?
I say no, not at all.
There should also not be near as many laws in many other areas either, as often the goal of the law written is to deter and then punish for those who violate them.
But all one has to do is look at the millions of three strikers out there to know laws really do not do allot in many cases, mostly because we give more rights to the criminals then the law abiding.

So to digress, someone name a gun law that prevents a crime?
There exist no anti-gun law on any books that prevents a crime.
There is however something on the books that can prevent a crime and thats being able to defend
ones self with a firearm.

So why a firearm, why not a bat or golf club or a knife as a means to prevent a crime?
Because in this country there exist only one personal tool that when needed equalizes ones ability to stop a crime. It also does not matter how big or small the perpetrator or victim of a crime is a firearm has the ability to equalize the situation.

These crimes below have the ability to be prevented when the victim has a firearm.

• Rape
• Robbery
• Home-invasion
• kidnapping
• Deadly assault
  
• Car jacking

There are thousands of would be victims that ended the ability to become a statistic simply by owning a firearm. And the more laws we pass restricting access, the more criminals will continue to create more victims as the ability to defend ones self becomes severely complicated.

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[bolus]

Bill of rights is to prevent the federal government from making laws to ban those rights. Federal Firearms Act of 1934 is just such a law.

 

[DuneHopper]

Bill of rights is to prevent the federal government from making laws to ban those rights. Federal Firearms Act of 1934 is just such a law.

Exactly, so they don't ban them they just limit access a step at a time.

 

[Kruel J]

I'm for background checks. That's about it.

 

[po18guy]

Excellent point. I maintain that gun laws cause an increase in crime and violence. Look at the stats since GCA68 was passed. It only got worse. Reach back and the same effect was noted after the Sullivan Act in New York was supposed to eliminate gangster violence. Went straight up.

Murder, assault, robbery etc. were banned long ago. So, how is a law relating to the mere possession of an inanimate object supposed to affect this? There is a bigger and hidden agenda here. You cannot enslave an armed man.

Rhetorical question: Why is our society so filled with murderers? More than ever contemplate and then carry out murder, even mass murder, as some sort of statement or solution.

It is far easier to pass an ineffective law than to deal with murder as a cultural norm.

 

[SlimPickins]

Do we even need any gun laws ?
I say no, not at all.
There should also not be near as many laws in many other areas either, as often the goal of the law written is to deter and then punish for those who violate them.
But all one has to do is look at the millions of three strikers out there to know laws really do not do allot in many cases, mostly because we give more rights to the criminals then the law abiding.

So to digress, someone name a gun law that prevents a crime?
There exist no anti-gun law on any books that prevents a crime.
There is however something on the books that can prevent a crime and thats being able to defend
ones self with a firearm.

So why a firearm, why not a bat or golf club or a knife as a means to prevent a crime?
Because in this country there exist only one personal tool that when needed equalizes ones ability to stop a crime. It also does not matter how big or small the perpetrator or victim of a crime is a firearm has the ability to equalize the situation.

These crimes below have the ability to be prevented when the victim has a firearm.

• Rape
• Robbery
• Home-invasion
• kidnapping
• Deadly assault
  
• Car jacking

There are thousands of would be victims that ended the ability to become a statistic simply by owning a firearm. And the more laws we pass restricting access, the more criminals will continue to create more victims as the ability to defend ones self becomes severely complicated.

I agree, free guns without laws for all. Zero law initiative is something I can get behind.

 

[DuneHopper]

Side note : Australia, GUN BAN
Rapes, and all personal crimes are up over 75% what they were previously.
Murders are not down, just those when a gun was used.

 

[SlimPickins]

I'm for background checks. That's about it.

Shouldn't be required for private sales.

 

[Stomper]

An armed society is a polite (and free) society.

 

[SlimPickins]

An armed society is a polite (and free) society.

Damn right, guns for all.

 

[DuneHopper]

I'm for background checks. That's about it.

Why I get the premise for a BGC, and I am not a criminal but know (hypothetically of course )
were in Komifornia one could get a none# for around 300.00. The system we see is for law abiding.
The real system by passes it all together, due to the view-ability of the forum thats as much as I will
explain. However its not hard to do and most times you pay less then market value.
I think maybe a BGC might prevent a very very small amount of people from access firearm.
But laws or no laws they are for sale and out there. What they don't tell you is when shipping containers
have been jacked, and ammo and mags as well dumping millions of firearms on the black market and thats just from the USA manufactures firearms. It like the internet we all love an enjoy and then there is the long standing for over 25 years dark areas that don't use browsers and spell checkers, java etc. Just like many don't use BGC to do bad things. I know you know this, but saying it outloud.

 

[SlimPickins]

Why I get the premise for a BGC, and I am not a criminal but know (hypothetically of course )
were in Komifornia one could get a none# for around 300.00. The system we see is for law abiding.
The real system by passes it all together, due to the view-ability of the forum thats as much as I will
explain. However its not hard to do and most times you pay less then market value.
I think maybe a BGC might prevent a very very small amount of people from access firearm.
But laws or no laws they are for sale and out there. What they don't tell you is when shipping containers
have been jacked, and ammo and mags as well dumping millions of firearms on the black market and thats just from the USA manufactures firearms. It like the internet we all love an enjoy and then there is the long standing for over 25 years dark areas that don't use browsers and spell checkers, java etc. Just like many don't use BGC to do bad thing. I know you know this, but saying it outloud.

Exactly why I think the whole law abiding citizen thing is bull crap. It's a misnomer that doesn't accurately depict reality.

 

[titsonritz]

I'm for background checks. That's about it.

Shouldn't be required for private sales.

I agree, no requirement but there should be a hassle-free ability for a BGC. I shouldn't have to deal with BS when trading/buying/sell with people I know or flag me their CCW, boom done. If someone is selling their stuff and they want to go through the BGC process far out, that's my option to say no thanks.

ETA: meant hassle-free

 

[SlimPickins]

I agree, no requirement but there should be a hassle ability for a BGC. I shouldn't have to deal with BS when trading/buying/sell with people I know or flag me their CCW, boom done. If someone is selling their stuff and they want to go through the BGC process far out, that's my option to say no thanks.

Agreed as an option.

 

[titsonritz]

An armed society is a polite (and free) society.

and has the ability to stay that way, don't piss it away.

 

[SlimPickins]

and has the ability to stay that way, don't piss it away.

Amen, which is why I find it strange giving a free gun to every citizen along with training is so opposed to on here. It would pretty much assure a strong tradition and value in gun ownership for our amazing country.

 

[Ownerus]

Exactly why I think the whole law abiding citizen thing is bull crap. It's a misnomer that doesn't accurately depict reality.

To be a "law abiding" citizen, one would have to know the law. With umpty kajillion laws on the books, the law is not knowable. I try to not use the term "law abiding". I prefer "honest" citizen instead. I try to live by the basic rules of "don't steal" and "do what you say you'll do" (keep your contracts). To the extent "the law" is in line with justice, I'm pretty well covered. Since it's not always, I'm likely unintentionally not "law abiding". Remember, everything the Nazis did in Germany was "lawful".

The old malum in se vs malum prohibitum argument.

Amen, which is why I find it strange giving a free gun to every citizen along with training is so opposed to on here. It would pretty much assure a strong tradition and value in gun ownership for our amazing country.

Wasn't aware that it was opposed here but I'll say I oppose it. Nothing is free. "Free" means paid for by someone else. "What we acquire cheaply, we esteem lightly".

 

[SlimPickins]

To be a "law abiding" citizen, one would have to know the law. With umpty kajillion laws on the books, the law is not knowable. I try to not use the term "law abiding". I prefer "honest" citizen instead. I try to live by the basic rules of "don't steal" and "do what you say you'll do" (keep your contracts). To the extent "the law" is in line with justice, I'm pretty well covered. Since it's not always, I'm likely unintentionally not "law abiding". Remember, everything the Nazis did in Germany was "lawful".

The old malum in se vs malum prohibitum argument.



Wasn't aware that it was opposed here but I'll say I oppose it. Nothing is free. "Free" means paid for by someone else. "What we acquire cheaply, we esteem lightly".

And I support a gun for every citizen through taxation. We're already being taxed for fighter jets, and missiles, why not guns for the citizenry too?

 

[Boboclown]

To be a "law abiding" citizen, one would have to know the law. With umpty kajillion laws on the books, the law is not knowable. I try to not use the term "law abiding". I prefer "honest" citizen instead. I try to live by the basic rules of "don't steal" and "do what you say you'll do" (keep your contracts). To the extent "the law" is in line with justice, I'm pretty well covered. Since it's not always, I'm likely unintentionally not "law abiding". Remember, everything the Nazis did in Germany was "lawful".

The old malum in se vs malum prohibitum argument.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Since there's so many laws, and jurisdictions, we as the people are screwed.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

A law will only "work" if folks are willing to abide by it.
Criminals by their nature are already "working" outside of the law...so what is yet another law for them to "break"...?

We have laws aplenty.
How 'bout taking a long hard look at the laws that are already in place and see , just what is actually working...
Maybe enforce the laws already in place...
Hold people accountable for enforcing the laws in place...
Get rid of laws that do nothing...
Understanding that what works as a gun law in Pinedale Wyoming ...may not work in Chicago Illinois...and vise versa...

And one other thought regarding laws :
All bad precedents begin as justifiable measures.
Andy