BRN-180: Yay or Nay?

[3MTA3]

Brownells AR-180 inspired design has been out there long enough to see if it's a real AR-15 alternative. If you have been using these what is your take? Would you trust this upper with your life? Would you choose it over an AR-15?

It you haven't seen these before, this is a short stroke piston system that does not use a buffer system like the AR-15. A BRN-180 upper will fit on an AR-15 lower, nut there are BRN-180 lowers as well. An advantage is a side charging handle and natively supports a folding butt stock.

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[Ruggedbert]

I had both the 10.5 "and 16" in 223 Wylde. They ran perfectly, had zero malfunctions, and shot very softly.

 

[titsonritz]

Why not?

 

[3MTA3]

Why not?

Every system has to prove itself, and some designs are fine for the shooting range but not for the battlefield. This system has been around long enough to know how reliable it is, so I'm asking the question.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

If the whole Pistol Brace amnesty turns out to be a "The Firearm in the pic you submitted has too many points. You owe us $200" trap, I am trying to decide between a BRN-180S short stroke piston or a PSA JAKL long stroke piston in 300BO assuming they are available. Just attach a single point sling to the back and it is good to go for home or vehicle carry with a CHL.

 

[3MTA3]

I had both the 10.5 "and 16" in 223 Wylde. They ran perfectly, had zero malfunctions, and shot very softly.

Thans for the input! Serious question - You have an AR-15 and and BRN-180, same barrel length and cartridge next to each other. Which one do you pick when when your life depends on it?

 

[Gbirk]

I have a 16" upper on a Radian lower and I really like how it shoots........but I would not consider it a good SHTF gun or the gun I would grab to save my life.

This rubber bumper is for a folding stock to rest against.


It also holds a small piece if metal inside the receiver in place. The screw that is used can not be properly torqued because it sits on top of the rubber bumper. This screw is CRITICAL! If it is too tight, or falls out, the bolt will destroy the inside of the receiver.

Mine fell out at at match, and took the gun out of commission.


When it fell out, it allowed the bolt to travel behind the extruded part of the internal rails and damage the end of the extruded rail causing the bolt to stop going into battery.




To me, this makes the gun WAAAYYY to fragile to trust my life with.

I will say, PWS replaced the upper and some other internals within 2 weeks of my sending in the support request. I have nothing buy good things to say about their support. They even paid the shipping for me to send it back. They were great, and I will buy one of their piston uppers at some point. I plan to keep the BRN-180, but it is a range gun at this point, not something I would really depend on.

Also, I don't know if it is the BRN-180 upper or the Radian lower, but it eats polymer magazines like candy, so now I only run steel or aluminum mags in it.


Well, that is my BRN-180 story and I am sticking to it. I really like how it shoots and handles (even if it is a bit front heavy) and I have spent way too much setting it up, but I don't trust it.



Well, if you will excuse me, it seems my dog just got skunked. Should be a fun night.

 

[Ruggedbert]

I guess that depends on who makes the AR15. I've seen ARs malfunction, especially when suppressing. From what I've seen BRN180 gen 2 will run reliably suppressed or unsupressed.

 

[Gbirk]

I would also add (and I know this is a training issue), but the whole thing where the bolt and recoil assembly shoot out of the back of the receiver when you separate the upper and lower is a complete no-go while in the woods.

 

[titsonritz]

Every system has to prove itself, and some designs are fine for the shooting range but not for the battlefield. This system has been around long enough to know how reliable it is, so I'm asking the question.

Sorry, I thought my answer was implicate.

HELL YES!!!

Better?

I'm not going to dump my AR's and convert over but if I 've arrived barely alive at the secret MAGA camp and that is what they hand me to continue God's works hell yes, I'm ready to rock and roll.

 

[3MTA3]

I have a 16" upper on a Radian lower and I really like how it shoots........but I would not consider it a good SHTF gun or the gun I would grab to save my life.

This rubber bumper is for a folding stock to rest against.
View attachment 1275075

It also holds a small piece if metal inside the receiver in place. The screw that is used can not be properly torqued because it sits on top of the rubber bumper. This screw is CRITICAL! If it is too tight, or falls out, the bolt will destroy the inside of the receiver.

Mine fell out at at match, and took the gun out of commission.
View attachment 1275076

When it fell out, it allowed the bolt to travel behind the extruded part of the internal rails and damage the end of the extruded rail causing the bolt to stop going into battery.

View attachment 1275077
View attachment 1275078

To me, this makes the gun WAAAYYY to fragile to trust my life with.

I will say, PWS replaced the upper and some other internals within 2 weeks of my sending in the support request. I have nothing buy good things to say about their support. They even paid the shipping for me to send it back. They were great, and I will buy one of their piston uppers at some point. I plan to keep the BRN-180, but it is a range gun at this point, not something I would really depend on.

Also, I don't know if it is the BRN-180 upper or the Radian lower, but it eats polymer magazines like candy, so now I only run steel or aluminum mags in it.
View attachment 1275079

Well, that is my BRN-180 story and I am sticking to it. I really like how it shoots and handles (even if it is a bit front heavy) and I have spent way too much setting it up, but I don't trust it.

View attachment 1275080

Well, if you will excuse me, it seems my dog just got skunked. Should be a fun night.

Thanks for all the detail! I wonder if the bumper could be replaced with a solid metal part for better retention and then covered with rubber?

How is puppy today? Hope your wife let both of you sleep inside last night.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Brownells AR-180 inspired design has been out there long enough to see if it's a real AR-15 alternative. If you have been using these what is your take?

Would you trust this upper with your life?

Yes, no question at all. The PWS-made 223 wylde upper is excellent. Very smooth action. After a range session it's so clean it looks as if you never shot it. The short stroke gas piston ar-180 action is used on some of the best guns in the world including the scar, hk 416, styer Aug, and many others. Uses standard ar15 lower so accepts standard mags, triggers, grips, etc.

Would you choose it over an AR-15?

Yes. I like the recoil impulse better. There is no twang or vibration on your cheek because there is no buffer. Because there is no buffer you can put a folding stock or telescopic stock making the size of the gun much, much smaller when storing or carrying.

It also shoots when folded such as in vehicle. My 10.5" brn with brace folded is almost exactly the same size as an mp5 with brace folded. So you get 556 power in an mp5 sized package.

I have shot my aR15 side by side with the brn-180 at the same 100yard targets with same ammo and I can see no difference in accuracy at all. Have not tested at longer ranges.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

.

I would also add (and I know this is a training issue), but the whole thing where the bolt and recoil assembly shoot out of the back of the receiver when you separate the upper and lower is a complete no-go while in the woods.

They don't shoot out of the back of the receiver. Not at all. You have to bump it out and then it slides out, not comes firing out.

Skip to 13:30 mark in this video to see it:

Also I have had no issues whatsoever with mags shooting pmags and ok industries surefeed (the only 2 mags I use).

 

[Gbirk]

Thanks for all the detail! I wonder if the bumper could be replaced with a solid metal part for better retention and then covered with rubber?

How is puppy today? Hope your wife let both of you sleep inside last night.

I found these online that are a hard nylon like material, and will be installing it soon. The website describes exactly my experience so I am obviously not the only one this has happened to. Hopefully it fixes the issue.



Man, the whole house stinks today. Got the puppy right in the face.

 

[Gbirk]

.

They don't shoot out of the back of the receiver. Not at all. You have to bump it out and then it slides out, not comes firing out.

Skip to 13:30 mark in this video to see it:

Also I have had no issues whatsoever with mags shooting pmags and ok industries surefeed (the only 2 mags I use).

I understand these issues are not supposed to happen and have watched all of the videos, but I have about 2k rounds through this upper and I am just telling it like it is. The bolt will absolutely eject out the back of the receiver when it is opened once in a while, and in fact the issue gets worse over time. it is still under a little spring tension when forward and only held in with friction from the end cap. With age the nubs on the end cap loosen up and do not stay in as well.

The pmags run fine, but I have had 4 of them with over insertion issues like in the picture where something eats at the lip where the mag hits the stop. Now that could totally be the lower, but I had a S&W receiver on it for about 500 rounds when I first got it, and had the same issue. No biggie as I have plenty of metal mags and I can run pmags as well if I am gentle with them when I insert them.

it is not a personal attack on your gun, I love shooting mine, but it is not as well designed as the AR15. It has some small but fatal weak points in my opinion.

 

[Glizzy Goblin]

Gen2 BRN 180's are good to go. Sent in a Gen1 upper that had issues to PWS. They shipped back a brand new Gen2 that runs flawless. Now if only PWS or Brownells can make a compatible lower for their recently released 7.62 uppers that utilizes AK mags. That would be great Thanks

 

[3MTA3]

Nice documentary on the AR-18/180 pn Forgotten Weapons

I was surprised that it was designed to be a lower cost alternative to the AR-15/16. It's also interesting that the short stroke piston design came about because Armalite had sold the AR-15/16 design and no longer had rights to the DI gas system.

I like most of the changes made in the BRN-180 in terms of leveraging existing AR-15 parts like lowers, barrels, and hand guards. This is especially true by using forged receivers instead of stamped ones. IMO these, with few exceptions like mentioned above by @Gbirk are improvements over the original.

 

[djharteloo]

I really like my BRN180. That being said I've seen some pictures of failures in the bolt guide around the 6k round mark. Mine is no where close to that many rounds so I can't speak to it personally.

The BRN180 fits my roll for more of a toy. Its super fun suppressed and is very light weight but in terms of trust my life too there's better short stroke gas piston rifles to choose from.

 

[erslll]

Hopefully, my JMAC stock will be here tomorrow and I can start testing mine out.

Glad to see this post though. Hadn't seen much talk about them here. Good to see they are mostly liked and to see what to watch out for.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

What lower do you use with the BRN-180?