Armed Trespass?

[misplacedtexan]

In some states, a sign does have the force of law. I was surprised to hear that Texas has that law, and there are even approved signs.

Yea, it has to be certain sized letter, with a blue border, with contrasting print, and be verbatim for what the law says. And the law changed the signs verbiage a few years ago and a lot of places never updated their signs, so regardless people can legally carry.

 

[deen_ad]

<Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel! Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!

Vancouver Mall used to post no guns signs, but you could walk into the Big5 store and buy a long gun. The only way in and out of the Big5 store was through the mall. I ignore the signs if I ever go into the mall. Don't go there very often and then just to look at the pets in the pet store.

Deen
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"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"

 

[deen_ad]

<Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel! Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!

So, I'm in a restaurant eating dinner and they become aware that I'm carrying and ask me to leave. Do I have to pay for the meal since I'm not going to be allowed to finish it and, in fact, may not even have all my meal served?
Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
Defender of Freedom Award
NRA Recruiter
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member

"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"

 

[deen_ad]

<Why there aren't any school shootings in Israel! Teacher with long gun slung over her shoulder!!!

Yea, it has to be certain sized letter, with a blue border, with contrasting print, and be verbatim for what the law says. And the law changed the signs verbiage a few years ago and a lot of places never updated their signs, so regardless people can legally carry.

In Texas it's called the 30.06 law. That's the legal cite for that particular law. Kind of ironic!

Deen
NRA Life Member, Benefactor Level
Defender of Freedom Award
NRA Recruiter
Second Amendment Foundation Member
Washington Arms Collectors Member
Arms Collectors of SW Washington Member

"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don't have it, you'll probably never need one again!"

 

[Riot]

So, I'm in a restaurant eating dinner and they become aware that I'm carrying and ask me to leave. Do I have to pay for the meal since I'm not going to be allowed to finish it and, in fact, may not even have all my meal served?

If they do attempt to charge you, they must give it to you to go or can only charge you for the food you eat. However, it is a slippery slope to kick out patrons for firearms because they don't do this to police- so basically they are excluding out a group.

Imagine being told that anyone wearing red cannot come in- however, a group of on-duty Firefighters comes in (all in red) and are served...if this policy isn't applied evenly (i.e. you are excluded or singled out by the policy) then per Stoumen v. Reilly, a business can be held liable.

Members of the public of lawful age have a right to patronize a public restaurant and a bar so long as they are acting properly and are not committing illegal and immoral acts. The proprietor has no right to exclude or reject a patron except for good cause, and if he does so without good cause, he is liable in damages

Mind you this is a California case and envolks a California state law..but I still wonder if it can be referenced for discrimination.

 

[gryghin]

...

A lot of people make assumptions about firearms laws - which is why we often see questions about where to "register" a firearm after someone has bought one in a locale where "registration" is not the law (indeed, no mechanism for it).

Maybe we can set up a Weapons Registration site for Oregon. The first page goes about asking political stance type questions, once the "liberal" leaning questions are answered such as "Do you believe that all weapons should be registered - YES/no" then it will load a paypal payment button that takes registration fees. All of course on a secure server. And the monies collected can be used to fund the next NWFA meet and greet.

 

[BryanMunson]

IF "No Gun" signs have the force of law? Which ORS law is it?

Exactly. There is no law giving any signage the force of law so therefore signs do not have the force of law.
As for the Post Office, you can't carry there if you have criminal intent-that is what the law SAYS but it has been enforced much differently. Laws are not black and white which is why any time Prozanski authors a law it should be defeated just because he is a prosecuting attorney-murky and ambiguous language that can be twisted to mean anything.

 

[telero]

Its worth noting that if asked to leave and you dont immediately, the charge of trespass is upped to criminal trespass because you have a firearm. http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/164.265

Oregon law specifically spells out that if you are a trespasser with a firearm then it is Criminal Trespass which Koda pointed out

All trespass seems to be criminal trespass.

What I see is:
ORS 164.245 is criminal trespass in the second degree.
ORS 164.255 is criminal trespass in the first degree.
ORS 164.265 is criminal trespass while in possession of a firearm.

So all of those are criminal trespass, it's the severity that changes. 245 is a class c misdemeanor, while 255 and 265 are class a misdemeanors.

The differences:
245 is for trespassing on premises or in a vehicle, but becomes 265 if you have a firearm while on premises (but not in a vehicle?).

255 is for trespassing in a dwelling rather than on premises, or if you already have been told that coming back would be trespassing per the 245 law, and you're coming back to commit theft.

You are not trespassing simply because someone tells you to leave. They must have the authority to do so...neither can just regular employees of a business unless the manager/owner explicitly gave them the authority to do so.

Authorized persons to trespass individuals usually are security officers, managers, owners, tenants, landlords or police.

I think an employee can tell you to leave. ORS 164.205 (Definitions) say:
"Person in charge means a person, a representative or employee of the person who has lawful control of premises by ownership, tenancy, official position or other legal relationship"

So basically I just typed a long post to reitterate "screw their sign, if it's legal to carry then carry!"

Agreed.

 

[Diamondback]

In some states, a sign does have the force of law. I was surprised to hear that Texas has that law, and there are even approved signs.

No, Texas has a MANDATED format down to the font-sizes (seriously, give 30.06 a read sometime), and if you deviate from it in any way it's not considered legally valid.

I've heard lots of reports of Texas business owners who deliberately post "non-compliant" signs to placate the sheeple while still letting us know we're welcome too.

 

[Koda]

I've heard lots of reports of Texas business owners who deliberately post "non-compliant" signs to placate the sheeple while still letting us know we're welcome too.

cost of non-compliant sign: .50 cents, tricking the thugs into thinking its a gun free zone: priceless.

 

[Provincial]

cost of non-compliant sign: .50 cents, tricking the thugs into thinking its a gun free zone: priceless.

Wouldn't that be considered a Game Law violation for hunting over a "baited" field?

 

[Diamondback]

Wouldn't that be considered a Game Law violation for hunting over a "baited" field?

If luring banditos were the intent... it's more trying to please both the pro- and anti-CCW customer bases. The latter see "posted No Guns, OK," and go in, while we see the "wink wink, nod nod" and provide business as well.

 

[phathom]

I didn't take the time to read both pages of posts, but here's the deal.

In Oregon, other than specified places, aka Federal buildings, Indian reservations, etc. You can carry as you like. If the private business owner asks you to leave and you decline they can trespass you. It is the same as if they asked you to leave for making a disturbance or any other reason. It is not specific to you carrying a firearm. It is a private business and they can choose who they do business with.

In Washington, the same applies with one big exception. Places that are minor restricted and serve alcohol, such as bars, the bar in a restaurant, etc. They are required to post a green sign at the entrance that states the state law, that even with a CPL you cannot carry into those locations. It is against state law and a misdemeanor to do so. Other than that, the same applies with private businesses.

If a private business in Oregon or Washington has a No firearms or No weapons sign, it has no legal standing with the exception for Washington I gave above.

You may be asked to leave a private business for violating their rule, but it is in no way against the law unless you decline to leave and they trespass you.

 

[fd15k]

It is a private business and they can choose who they do business with.

Unless that choice is motivated by race, religion, gender, disabilities, etc...