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7.65x53 Muaser 1891

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by TheGameMaster, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. TheGameMaster

    TheGameMaster Portland, OR Member

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    Hey gang, just got my late grandfather's Muaser 1891. It's not worth a whole lot becaused it's been "sporterized"; some "person" cut off some of the wood, etc. And I have about 50 rounds of Norma 15pgr ammo for it, and about 10 rounds of 1945 army surplus ammo for it. It is all very old stuff. One of the boxes got wet and the bullets ard discolored (white). Should I risk fireing them? He appereantly used some of them, as I also have 10 empty surplus cases amd about 6 empty Norma cases.

    I went ahead and orderes the RCBS 30-06 to 765 forming die from midway, along with the Lee 3 die set that comes with the shell holder and powder dipper on sale. Also ordered some brass for 30-06 and some Spear 150gr sp bullets.

    So I need to figure out what powder to buy and what gr to use. All the data I have is really old or off the web. I ordered the new Lee book, but don't know if it is in there. Does lymann habe it? horndry 3rd has a bdief list, as does the 1986 NRA book. But those sources are 20-30 years old. Any help/hints/tricks would be swell!

    Rodney
     
  2. sneakboxer

    sneakboxer NW OR Active Member

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    My Lee 2nd edition manual has some data for you. If you have any loads in mind i'm willing to look them up for ya.
     
  3. motoman98

    motoman98 Gresham, OR Active Member

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    Really a great round, too. Out of my Dad's 29 1/4in bbl Argentine; I could get 2950 fps with the 150 gr Hornady spire. (Was using data from the 60's which listed alot hotter loads than now.)
     
  4. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    A very good chance (probably certain) the old military ammo is corrosive-primed. Okay to shoot if it appears in good condition, but plan to clean thoroughly afterward. I'm almost certain SOMEBODY makes brass for the Argentine that is boxer-primed (check Midway). Forming from .30-06 is just fine too.

    You won't find extensive lists of loads for it for the simple reason not many people load for it. If you are disappointed with varieties of suggestions, consult data for .30-40 Krag, or .303 British as very similar guidelines.

    Mine was an unaltered gun (other than having been refinished somewhere along the way). It was my "camp recreation gun", used for sitting in a lawn chair and seeing how far away we could hit rocks on a hillside out of camp (bets placed, of course). I never loaded for it, just purchased a huge lot of military ammo that lasted for the ten years I had the gun, and still had some to go with it when I traded it off.
     
  5. TheGameMaster

    TheGameMaster Portland, OR Member

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    Hi all. I miss-typed; its 150 gr. searah spitzer that I need load data for it for. I don't know what powder would would be a good choice to use if I go hevier or lighter on the bullets; and I am a cheapskate. If I could use the can of bullseye I already have, I would. 4230 is repeated a couple of times in the old data I have, as is Vardant. What can of powder should I get and what is the gr range for 150gr bullets?

    Thanks
     
  6. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Here's Lyman's Data:

    NOTE: As stated, you should probably use .311 diameter jacketed bullets (rather than garden-variety .30 caliber which are .308 diameter).

    img046.jpg
     
  7. TheGameMaster

    TheGameMaster Portland, OR Member

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    Awsome! Thanks! 43gr of 4895 is probably right on the money, looking at this.
     
  8. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Yup. 43g would be right in the middle. But note the "accuracy load" is also the max load for IMR4895. Worth approaching. Certainly do not go there first. You have .311 bullets??
     
  9. TheGameMaster

    TheGameMaster Portland, OR Member

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    Yes, that is, they are on order from midway. Searah .311 spitzer hunter-pro. Got them on sale. Same with the 30-06 brass. Picked up some Federal Large Rifle Primers. And a slip-in recoil pad. I went out and fired off 20 rounds the other day, and it still hurts! One thread I read online was talking anout using magnum primers instead of regular to burn off the exess powder so it wasn't so dirty to fire. I had to use about 10 wads to clean the thing. But that could have just been the old Norma ammo I was using. Any thoughts on primers? A good powder/primer combo that gives me some versatility on bullet loads is what I am after.

    Rodney
     
  10. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Howdy Rodney,

    No need for Magnum primers in your Argentine. Good ol' CCI 200's or any standard large rifle primer will do peachy for any published load you feed her.
     
  11. TheGameMaster

    TheGameMaster Portland, OR Member

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    Thanks for your help. I should get my reloading goodies today or tomrrow in the mail. So we'll see how it goes. I do have one more question; Files. What should I look for in a set of files for reloading? There is an ace hardware near my house, and all your typical big box stores are around. I don't know a thing about file sizes, types, etc. Any help is appriciated.

    Rodney
     
  12. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I will assume you are talking about a file to do your case trimming to proper overall length: important if you are forming from .30-06. (This is the original method for most handloaders just starting out, and it works just fine as long as you make a reasonable effort to keep the mouth of the case level, filed down evenly around the circumference.) You will need only one good file, and medium to fine-toothed. Once your finished case is filed to the proper length, you will need a deburring tool to remove the burrs that the file leaves, and this also bevels the interior and exterior of the mouth (interior bevel assists with bullet seating, exterior bevel assists with chambering).

    Staying with moderate loads, you may not have to trim and bevel again for 5 or 10 recharges of that case. An economical caliper ($15 or so at Harbor Freight, Midway comes close to this when having a sale) will suffice to measure your cases for proper overall length (OAL). Your caliper also serves to tell you how well you did in keeping the rim of the mouth even around the circumference when you filed it down, as the jaws of the caliper will show any undesirable angle you created.

    A "Trim Die" is the way to insure from the start that your case mouth is filed correctly. This is a specially hardened die that allows only the unwanted portion of the neck to be exposed for filing off (its hardness resists damage from the file). A trim die is not necessary, but it does make things easier.

    Once you become a dedicated handloader, you will invest in a case trimmer (this is like a miniature lathe, powered by a hand crank: fancy ones are motor-driven). It might be a good idea to shop used for a case trimmer, as they are plentiful and cheap (because so many guys are going for the motor-driven ones). Forster is a great one. RCBS, Lee, etc. also make them.

    Your Federal primers are pretty darned good stuff. Some say better quality than CCI, but I don't know for sure. I do buy Federal Benchrest primers for my serious stuff.
     
  13. TheGameMaster

    TheGameMaster Portland, OR Member

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    Thanks. After reading your reply, I went to bi-mart and got a set of files and my imr4895 powder. And myrcbs trim die, lee die kit, brass, bullets, and trimmer pillar just came in. My copy of "modern reloading" by Richard Lee just came in also, and low and behold, no load data in it for 7.65x53 Muaser! I sent them an email, so we'll see what they say. it is a nice book all the Dad and Brother sent me a care package that included; tumbler, rcbs hand crank trimmer, rcbs case prep center (motorized), hand deburring tool, hand primer tool, hand primer pocket tool, rcbs manual scale, powder funnel, reeding powder dispensor, reeding powder trickler, and calipers (not sure of brand, but nice in case). I had to just buy dies, shell holders, pillers, cullets, bulllet puller, and consumables. And books of course.

    Thanks for your help and we'll see what happens.

    Out of all the data I have looked at here is what I have:

    For IMR 4895 and 150gr bullets in 7.65x53 Muaser

    NRA (1986) 44.0 max
    Hornady 3rd (1980) 43.2 max, 36.6 Mim.
    Lyman's 49th (2010?) 46 max, 41 Min.
    Sierra 45.5 Maxm 39.6 Min.
    Cart. Of The World. 47 Max. 42 Min.
    IMR data 43 Max. 39.5 Min.

    So put it all together it's 47 Max, 36.6 Min. That is a lot of room to find the swwet spot.

    Rodney
     
  14. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    glad to be of some help, and sounds like you got a lot more.

    It takes a village...
     
  15. deadshot2

    deadshot2 NW Quadrant WA State Well-Known Member

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    Just curious, did your accuracy improve or was it degraded as "Happy Hour" progressed?

    I remember a camping trip where there was a lot of "lawn chair shooting" only it involved beer cans. Had to call a halt to this when one of the "competitors" started shooting before the "target setter" had returned from down range. That was also the last time I went out with that group.
     
  16. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    As I recall, all expressed evaluations of marksmanship IMPROVED as things progressed. But one must consider that the evaluators were also the shooters (and happy hour participants).
     
  17. TheGameMaster

    TheGameMaster Portland, OR Member

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    Hey, here is an update; took her to the Estacada Rod and Gun club sight-in event and she is dead center bullseye at 100 yards using the factory Norma ammo. So I'll save what little I have left for hunting. Tried out my re-load and it was off down and to the left by about 4 inches; stil on paper, but since it had not been fireformed yet, I didn't want to change anything.

    The shell holder popped off a piece of brass last nigh and took the rim with it. I was using my forming die. And yes, I did lube the brass really good. It was just one of those ill-sized brass that did not like being resized. Took me a while to figure out how to get it out. I smashed the head with vise grips and then pounded it out from the mouth using a gade 8 screw as a punch. What a pain! Anyway, its working fine now.
     
  18. motoman98

    motoman98 Gresham, OR Active Member

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    You might try some of the "imperial" sizing wax instead of an oil. Seems to be alot slicker.