357 magnum real dirty?

[Knebel]

I think I crimp them pretty good!

 

[Knebel]

Ok here is what I am going by!

 

[RVTECH]

And this is fine what you are going by - but did you start out with the top load?

If so that is NOT a proper loading practice. It is always recommended to start out lower and work your way up.

Also looking at your fired rounds I believe I am seeing some slight primer flattening and what looks like some primer leakage (the dark ring around where the primer meets the case). These are signs of overpressure.

I highly recommend you back it off and consider a heavier bullet and reduce to the lowest charge of 296 as shown in the MANUAL for that bullet OR consider a different load entirely with a slightly faster burning, mid range powder.

 

[ma96782]

Speaking of "flash".

Some powders do (and some may NOT) include special "flash inhibitors" in their formulations.

I can remember reading that a certain alphabet agency had put into their request for ammo....... that their ammo would/could have "less flash" than the normal off the shelf offerings. So maybe......it's just that the powder (or formula) was changed though still retaining the other specs. that the contract wanted.

Humm....

What powders have flash suppression

Aloha, Mark

PS....a good article on smokeless powder.....

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/a...nce-communications/fsc/april2002/mccord.htm

 

[ron]

Your load is too hot. I run 18.5 grains of H110 for 125 JHP. My Midway Load Map lists
110 XTP from W296 starting load 17.6 to 21.0 grains. How was the extraction with that load? What
did the primers look like? I would start over and start with 19 grains. The 357 magnum is what I cut my
teeth on reloading in 1978. I used 2400 for many years for mostly 357 and 44 magnum loads. H110 is much
cleaner than 2400 with higher velocity at lower psi. You will generally get better accuracy with a 158 JHP than
a 125 JHP. One notable exception I found is Remington 125 JHP Golden Sabers shoot as tight of a group
as any 158 JHP. I have reloaded a lot of Hornady XTP bullets and in my opinion they are top quality bullets.
The 125 grain magnum load will give you plenty of boom and flash. The 357 magnum with quality self defence
125 JHP is considered by many as the #1 one shot stop pistol caliber.

 

[Knebel]

No extraction issues, they come out as loose as they went in, just real dirty! Thats what made me courious, because they dont seem to be "expanding". Yes, the primers are a tad flattened but not anything more than what I've seen with factory loads!? I don't see any primer leakage, can you point me to where exactly you see that?

"110 XTP from W296 starting load 17.6 to 21.0 grains" Thats not what that manual says and I've read everywhere not to download. I tried the starting load and it didn't make much difference!? Also the 22 and 23gn is a compressed load according to the manual. maybe the 21gn isnt, I'll have to test how that shoots.

 

[Knebel]

here are two videos on the matter... the trash is not from me and I am aware... I actually pick up my stuff and others stuff too.

 

[RVTECH]

Your load is too hot.

Ditto this.

Your recoil appears to be bordering on a dangerous level for a .357.

Did you even hit the target? It appears the barrel is off the target to the upper right corner.

One more time - follow safe reloading procedures and good luck.

Over and out.

 

[Knebel]

I hit the target yes. I was holding the camera with one hand and shot with the other so its an optical thing. I always thought following a reloading manual would be safe!? By going down on the charge I'd be off manual...???? But yes, I'll go down on the powder!

 

[oremike]

Looks like you are using the LEE manual, you might get a second one like the Hornady or Lyman. Neither list the 110 bullet being used with H-110/W-296. The Lyman and others list a a most accurate and a hunting load as recommended. and can find good information working up to those. I don't thing Lee tests all those loads I say this because there no test fixture information like others use. Just as a point of reference I have at least 10 different Reloading manuals. Just checked the Hodgon manual and it doesn't list H-110(296 is the same as H-110) for a 110gr bullet either.

 

[Knebel]

Looks like you are using the LEE manual, you might get a second one like the Hornady or Lyman. Neither list the 110 bullet being used with H-110/W-296. The Lyman and others list a a most accurate and a hunting load as recommended. and can find good information working up to those. I don't thing Lee tests all those loads I say this because there no test fixture information like others use. Just as a point of reference I have at least 10 different Reloading manuals. Just checked the Hodgon manual and it doesn't list H-110(296 is the same as H-110) for a 110gr bullet either.

Just loaded a handful of 125gn XTPs with 19.5gn of w296. Im gonna see how those perform

 

[oremike]

Here is the hodgdon point and click reloading data link :Hodgdon Reloading | Home for you to use as an additional resource, you'll notice they list data for a 10" barrel. the general rule of thumb is a 50 FPS loss of velocity per inch of barrel length. Other books might use a 6" barrel and my Ruger GP-100 357 test fixture has a 4" barrel. What I'm saying is there is no industry standard for harvesting that data.

 

[ma96782]

Dirty, dirty, dirty........could we see some pictures of the offending cases?

Aloha, Mark

 

[JuglansRegia]

H110 and W296 are like that, they like to be loaded on the hot to maximum load level. If you want high velocity, and a big flash with those 110's, try Blue Dot. I kind of only load 158's with the H110 W296 due to the unburnt powder issue, its real bad if you have a short say 2-3 inch barrel.

 

[Knebel]

No, wait. I think I need to straighten this out.I am on purpose looking for the high velocity and I don't mind the recoil an flash! I loaded them because of it!

The "issue"I am seeing, compared to other load and powders is, sooth and burned powder seems to go past the case, backwards out the cylinder into the area with the had and firing pin and such. Other loads expand the case more and seal better is what I've noticed.

So is that just something that happens with max loads like that?

Regards the "dirty". I have everything clean right now but will take pics next time I fire some of them.

 

[Knebel]

https://imgur.com/a/Eo0wnaH

I googled this and the guy says it looks like that after 300 rounds. Mine gets substantially more dirty after 100. Very dark black is what I see.

 

[Mikej]

Dirty, dirty, dirty........could we see some pictures of the offending cases?

Aloha, Mark

If you look at the fired cases in the picture you can see the soot that came all the way down the sides of the case upon firing and dirtied the case head.

If he were running over pressure as some suggested, the case would have expanded and no soot would be on the brass or case head. That little light bullet is getting out of the case too soon and the magnum powder isn't allowed to burn properly because of it. Call that MY opinion.

Something else, start looking at more than one resource. Not only to get ranges of powder weights, but to find reasons for NOT using certain powders/weights/projectiles.

 

[edzz]

h110 and 296 both REQUIRE a heavy crimp for proper ignition. When I first started using these powders over four decades ago I had problems with inconsistent ignition and squibs with 125 grain bullets. Don't remember ever trying 110 grainers however with an even more limited bearing surface I would only imagine them to exacerbate the situation. I suspect that if you chronograph your loads they would lack consistency.
Another thing, just for amusement you might take a set of calipers to the range next time. Load all chambers fire all but one and measure the last one and compare the measurement before and after, you might be in fore a surprise.

 

[tac]

Wait, It's not unburned powder under the extractor and such, its sooth. There is tons of sooth that goes past the cases and back onto the had/firing pin/recoil shield area.

Huh?

 

[ma96782]

If you look at the fired cases in the picture you can see the soot that came all the way down the sides of the case upon firing and dirtied the case head.

So, his pictured evidence.....of his dirty cases are suppose to be in post #27 the second video?

OMG.

Besides the unfocused image in the video.......Soot/dirty cases? Can't say that I see it. So at this point IMHO....it looks like nothing to get worried about (to me). But then maybe, I'm not looking all that hard.

And, with the cases extracting that easily from the cylinder. Well, it does NOT appear to be a problem of overpressure. If it were so.....I'd expect that the cases would be sticking or at least giving you a bit of problem with extraction from the cylinder.

If your cylinder was bored out tooo large? Well hopefully, that is NOT the case.

Aloha, Mark