300 prc & 375 Ruger

[VanceInWA]

Choose your reputable rifle manufacture - the question remains why could one not run all cartridges at the same 65K pressure? The manufacturer of the rifle is not the question the quality of firearm is important. Is there that much difference in the case/ brass?

That's what I call an excellent question. I expect there were some technical reasons having to do with water capacity or case shape or... who knows. Since SAAMI average maximum pressures are no doubt far below explosive levels, it may not be too far off base to assume that a cartridge rated at 61,000 could be run at 65,000, for example, but would I do that? Nope. No chance. I wouldn't want to risk me or the rifle. I'll just stick with manual formulas.

 

[JRuby]

I believe that if it's ( powder charge / bullet ) not in one of my reloading manuals I don't go there so to me it adds a bit of safety if your not running towards the top of the pressure listed. I will always take accuracy over max energy.

 

[DirectDrive]

I still like that belt on my 300 and 375 H&H

My 300WBY looks malnourished next to a .404 Jeffery based cartridge.
Oh well, skinny is in now, right ?

 

[VanceInWA]

Oh well, skinny is in now, right ?

I wish...

 

[TTSX]

...and if I'm not mistaken, all of those cartridges can trace their parentage back to two rounds; The .375 H&H and the .404 Jeffery.

Kind of. For belted magnums I've heard both the .375 and .300 h&h are the parents. Guess it depends who you ask. The .375 Ruger, however, is not based on the .404 Jeffrey. The Jeffrey has a larger case head. What Ruger did was to take the case head of the belted variety, use the belt diameter as the new outer dimension for the body and move forward with minimal taper, lengthed to fit a standard long action. Essentially meaning if you had a 7mm rem mag, you could rebarrel to .375 Ruger and change no other parts. You could not do that with a Jeffrey based cartridge

 

[DirectDrive]

Kind of. For belted magnums I've heard both the .375 and .300 h&h are the parents. Guess it depends who you ask.

.375 - 1912
.300 - 1925
Therefore, .375 H&H is the parent cartridge for most belted magnums.
The only reason I know that is I looked it up earlier.

 

[TTSX]

.375 - 1912
.300 - 1925
Therefore, .375 H&H is the parent cartridge for most belted magnums.
The only reason I know that is I looked it up earlier.

Thanks for that. Been hearing the story both ways for a long friggin time.

 

[DirectDrive]

Thanks for that. Been hearing the story both ways for a long friggin time.

Me too, so I had to look it up.
Another thing is the advent of the "belt".
The .375, not having much of a shoulder to headspace on, probably needed the belt to make headspacing more positive.
Otherwise, in that era, a rim would have been used.

With more defined shoulders to headspace on, it's interesting how cartridge designers have gone away from the belt.

 

[DeanMk]

Choose your reputable rifle manufacture - the question remains why could one not run all cartridges at the same 65K pressure? The manufacturer of the rifle is not the question the quality of firearm is important. Is there that much difference in the case/ brass?

True, but then why did you bring up the manufacture of rifle in the first place?

 

[DeanMk]

Me too, so I had to look it up.
Another thing is the advent of the "belt".
The .375, not having much of a shoulder to headspace on, probably needed the belt to make headspacing more positive.
Otherwise, in that era, a rim would have been used.

With more defined shoulders to headspace on, it's interesting how cartridge designers have gone away from the belt.

Defined shoulders existed back then, too.
Look at the .30-06....and its 9 years older.

 

[JRuby]

I think the first belted cartridge was the 400/375 H&H

400/375 BELTED NITRO EXPRESS (H&H) | Cartridge Collector

www.cartridgecollector.net

 

[P7M13]

...and if I'm not mistaken, all of those cartridges can trace their parentage back to two rounds; The .375 H&H and the .404 Jeffery.

@TTSX touched on the genesis of the 375 Ruger. I read an article recently where the author speculated that the 375 Ruger and its derivatives were based on the 30 Newton family of cartridges but never attributed.

Is there that much difference in the case/ brass?

Oh he!! yes. The actual brass formulation (percentages of Cu, Sn, Zn, Fe, Mn, Si, etc), as well as how it's drawn, annealed, etc.
A lot of the discussion of brass quality and life are anectdotal, and some are pure hyperbole.
My experience tells me Hornady brass is soft, and therefore easier to reform into other cases, but it doesn't last long.
Regardless of the maker of the rifle or brass, cartridges and rifles have shorter lives as your pressures climb.
Run hot, die sooner.

 

[DirectDrive]

Defined shoulders existed back then, too.
Look at the .30-06....and its 9 years older.

Yes, they did. That was not my point, though.

I was referring to the advent of the belted case and how it was adopted over the decades.
And now almost all new chamberings do not use a belt.

 

[DeanMk]

@TTSX touched on the genesis of the 375 Ruger. I read an article recently where the author speculated that the 375 Ruger and its derivatives were based on the 30 Newton family of cartridges but never attributed.

Apologies, I was mistaken.
I was thinking that the .375 Ruger was a refinement of the .375 Dakota, which is based on the .404 Jeffery.
Apparently, its a proprietary cartridge, designed from a collaboration of both Ruger and Hornady.

 

[Steel Head]

My 300WBY looks malnourished next to a .404 Jeffery based cartridge.
Oh well, skinny is in now, right ?

But the 300/378 WBY makes the 404 Jeffrey look a bit anemic.


Here's a 300 Norma, 338edge(404 Jeffry based) and 37XC

 

[Lennie]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



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Three cartridges with belts
The term belted magnum[1] or belted case refers to any cartridge, but generally a rifle cartridge, with a shell casing that has a pronounced "belt" around its base that continues 2–4 mm past the extractor groove.
This design originated with the British gunmaker Holland & Holland for the purpose of headspacing certain more powerful cartridges. Non-shouldered (non-"bottlenecked") magnum rifle cartridges especially could be pushed too far into the chamber and thus cause catastrophic failure of the gun when fired with excessive headspace. The addition of the belt to the casing prevented over-insertion. An example of an American adaption of this practice is seen in cartridges like the .458 Winchester Magnum, also a shoulderless heavy magnum.
Many subsequent cartridges of "magnum" nomenclature were based on the original .375 H&H cartridge, so over time the belt became something of a standardized attribute, expected as part of a "magnum" cartridge. Many cartridge designs of the last century include this belt, but do not really require it.
In the last decade or so, there has been a trend toward beltless magnums, virtually all of which are heavily shouldered designs that obviate the original motivation for a belt.

As a rule of thumb, it is easier to obtain good accuracy from non-belted or rimless cases. In my past, I have had some vexing challenges when trying to develop MOA loads for some belted cases.

 

[DeanMk]

I think the first belted cartridge was the 400/375 H&H

400/375 BELTED NITRO EXPRESS (H&H) | Cartridge Collector

www.cartridgecollector.net

Found this curious, as the name alone would suggest a variation, but apparently not.
Odd looking cartridge (I thought a .303 Savage had a long neck! .)
OAL is 3". Case length is 2.5"



...compared to its successor, the .375 H&H.
OAL is 3.6". Case length is 2.85"



Anyway, sorry for the skew. Just found the cartridge noted in that post interesting.

 

[DeanMk]

My 300WBY looks malnourished next to a .404 Jeffery based cartridge.
Oh well, skinny is in now, right ?

...and in turn, .404 Jeffery vs. .505 Gibbs...



...

 

[VanceInWA]

...and in turn, .404 Jeffery vs. .505 Gibbs...

View attachment 1158846

That looks like serious recoil. Makes me want to start a thread...

 

[P7M13]

505 Gibbs, IIRC, is the parent design adapted to make the Cheyenne Tactical (Cheytac) line of cartridges. The bolt face is huge.
@Steel Head , your 338 Edge looks to be the improved version, yes?