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30-40 AMMO

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by Mica, Feb 27, 2011.

  1. Mica

    Mica Eugene Active Member

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    DOES ANYONE RELOAD 30-40 AMMO, HAVE YOU LOADED ANYTHING SMALLER THAN 180 GRAIN BULLETS AND HOW DID THEY PREFORM.
     
  2. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Howdy Mica,

    I have a Shiloh Sharps Jaeger rifle in .30-40 Krag. I wanted to chase antelope with it, and wanted a flat-shooting load different from the standard 180-220 grain loadings. Here is what I found that works: 53.0 grains of WW760 behind a 125g Nosler Ballistic Tip. (Federal 210 primer). Chronographs 2900fps out of my 26" barrel on the Sharps. I knew that if I was going light on the bullet, I needed the longest bullet I could find (to be compatible with normal Krag barrel twist). The Ballistic Tip is significantly longer than other 125g .308 bullets, due to its hollowpoint (topped by plastic), and its copper base.

    Very accurate in this gun. Globe front and Vernier tang sight produces 1.5" groups (and one very dead antelope). Usual cautions apply if you choose to try an internet-supplied load. Good luck with your Krag adventure!
     
  3. Mica

    Mica Eugene Active Member

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    thanks, I have a model 1895 winchester passed down from my uncle. I have the new lyman book and the salest it listed was 150grain bullet 53 grains i think it was. and vagerate powder. I just got into reloading and am very thankful for the help.
     
  4. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Mica keep posting any results you get reloading for the 30-40 I also have a Model 1895 mine is the LONG barrel (26") version. I have collected up enough Brass to start loading for it and will also be working with lighter bullets.

    First up for me is going to be some plain old Hornady 150 gr Spire points. I might even try some 130gr Hornady HP's I have. I see no reason why a Model 95 shouldn't preform with lighter bullets Winchester and Remington made 150 grain loads for them back in the day.

    It will be a couple weeks before I get these loaded and to the range to see how they preform. I don't have a chronograph so 100 to 200 yard accuracy with the Lyman receiver mounted peep sight will be the best I can offer. But it will be at the Gun club so good bench good support etc.
     
  5. Mica

    Mica Eugene Active Member

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    sounds good.we both have the same sites.I had read in a old peterson book about having problems with tumbling on any thing lighter than 180. out of the 1895. spitpatch was saying he loaded 125 s in his sharps so hopefuly we will be sucsessful
     
  6. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Go Long! Go Long! Even for the 150g, I'd take a hard look at the Ballistic Tip for a bullet that very nearly approximates the length of a conventional 180g. The Krags are rlfled for long bullets, and you can't push that envelope too far. Not only that, Ballistic Tips are almost always where I start when looking for accuracy. Another option for length in a light bullet might be a Barnes all-copper. I haven't had a lot of luck with Barnes accuracy, but I haven't tried their newest modification yet.

    My '95 is a .30-06 caribine. It works for antelope too!
     
  7. Mica

    Mica Eugene Active Member

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    I was wondering about the barns, one of my hunting budys started useing those. I have always had a soft spot for the nosler, I even named my last dog nosler. that is one awsome bullet in my book.
     
  8. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    I load this cartridge commercially, and when we were doing load development we fired everything from 150gr to 220gr nosler partitions to 170gr cast. We had pretty good luck with 180gr BTSP sierras, the one conclusion we reached that I can give you without getting into trouble is IMR4350 is the best powder we tried.

    The original profile of the .30-40 bullet was a 220gr RN, you may want to try using some 150-170gr .30-30 style bullets. The Krag is a rather odd rifle in it's preference for heavy bullets, but we got acceptable accuracy out of the krag we had with 150gr bullets. We did load some barnes TTSX with good results, however them bullets are pricey! I wouldn't hesitate to use barnes for hunting loads, but I would likely not take them to the range for a day of putting holes in paper.
     
  9. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Does anyone know the actual rate of twist in a Model 1895 in 30-40 Krag. I tired to measure mine but was not successful. It appears to be quite quick I would think about 1-10 same as a 30-06. I do know one of the reasons sited for use of LONG bullets is the chamber cone which was cut for 180-220 grain RN nose type bullets so a shorter Spizer type bullet will have to jump to the rifling. Never a good thing.

    I for one will keep Spitpatch's advise in mind when looking for lighter bullets.

    I also found any number of references to achieving good results with 150 and even 130 grain bullets developing speeds very close to the 30-06

    I found recommendations to hold even the STRONG second and throat series 1895s to 43,000 CUP with some period recommendations running to 46,000 CUP (Elmer Keith if I remember correctly) I'm thinking I'll hold to the 40-43K range in my own loads.

    It would be interesting to get a chamber cast of my rifle to be able to actually measure the throat and see how close one could come to the rifling with a lighter bullet.

    I looked all over the INTERNET for spec's on the 1895's rate of twist and came up with ONLY info for the new Browning Repo's so I have no idea if that holds or they just used the same rifling as the 30-06 version with a different chamber. Both were 1-10"

    OK I used some different search terms and came up with the 30-40 and 30-06 BOTH being a 1-10 rate of twist in the original military configuration. This was based on a formula that multiplies the caliber x the length of the bullet. The sweet spot being a number between 1.5 and 2.0 A faster twist has no bad effects on lighter?shorter barrel. According to the info I can find in Gunsmithing: rifles By Patrick Sweeney.

    So again I think the whole LONG BALL thing with a 30-40 has to be based on the throat not the rate of twist. Which is a good thing since we can now get things like solid copper bullets that for a given wt. are much longer then a heavier lead core bullet.

    WOW this is getting fun. Wish I wasn't going on vacation tomorrow I would run right out and see what balls I can find to reload and get after this experiment.

    My next attempt at improving the Model 1895 I have will be to make a custom aperture for the Lyman Receiver sight Mine the hole is perfectly suited to hunting big game but not target shooting. The hole has to be oner 1/8th inch. Since I happen to have a Lathe when I get back I'm going to work on a aperture that will plug into the original have a larger diameter and about a .040 aperture. That should help rule out any off center crap while bench shooting.

    Mica I would love to see a Photo of your rifle this is mine.

    1895009web-1.jpg
     
  10. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I also managed to finally get the right patch/jag combo that would follow the rifling in my 1895 and it's a 1-10 twist with 4 grooves So for me that takes care of wondering about that LOL!
     
  11. Mica

    Mica Eugene Active Member

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    Il put up a pict. Its the saddle ring carbine. Lookslikethe question was answerd. 1 in 10 twist.
     
  12. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Oh nice I think my dads first one he had to sell off around the time I was born was a Saddle ring.
    Looking forward to a photo.
     
  13. Mica

    Mica Eugene Active Member

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    Bin trying to locate some more 30-40 brass, I went to my favorit store, (Bi-mart) They haft to order it, I will find out what it runs and post it for those in need like myself. It is remington brass wich makes sense.Thats the only one I can find still making factory rounds. When I can Find them. Needless to say, I can still remember getting rid of all my 30-40 brass awhile back. thinking I wont ever get a chance to start reloading. LOL. OK OK no more sniveling. Picked up my powder,some more bullets .now I just need more brass. Taking the day off to play today. But my eight year old told me I cant reload without his supervision. So I will wait till after school.
     
  14. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    After wiping the drool from my keyboard from looking at Mark's '95, I thought I'd show you what one looks like with gangster whitewalls and a fuzzy steering wheel.

    Former carver from Fajen did this. Since we were doing a total restoration, he was given "artistic license". I think his license was an early form of medical marijuana card.

    It is not a Krag. It is an '06. Kinda reminds me of wunna my ol' girlfriends: sparkly on the outside, hurts like .... when you touch the trigger.

    Hey! At least its "Patriotic Pimp"! View attachment 21547 View attachment 21548
     
  15. Mica

    Mica Eugene Active Member

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    All i can say is wow. both your guys gun look awsome. I tried to take some picts with my phone, they didnt turn out very good . I will try and get mine up today. mine is missing the top piece of wood, my saddle ring broke off who knows when,and the but stock has been modified back in the day. all that wa done though before my uncle got it back in the40 s. I can say however it still shoots like a dream. not a speck of rust and has coined the term , ( If its brown its down.) those were my uncles words. I have shot mine as much as i could afford. however now thanks to reloading and some great advice from you guys. will finaly put my uncles gun back to work.
     
  16. Mica

    Mica Eugene Active Member

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    Ok, this is the best i can do with my phone, I also put a close up of my sites. of course I cant see as far as the elevation goes. I have thought about geting it restored, however I just kinda hate to take away the character from it. I did see the replacement top piece of the forarm on gun brokers awhile back. Im just not sure how is was attached.
     
  17. Mica

    Mica Eugene Active Member

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    Finaly found some more 30-40 brass, new winchester brass. 150 rounds for 90 bucks . I figure that should last me a while.
     
  18. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The #1 rule of antique firearms is to NEVER do anything to change the original condition of a firearm except to clean. IN almost every imaginable case to do other wise will effect the value in a negitive way. Now if the rifle has little or NO collectors value (which in the case of a Model 1895 would be a truely sad example)

    The First 10 rules of collecting Winchesters are the same as the 1st rule for everything else.

    That said its yours so you can do with it as you chose


    150rds of New brass for 90 bucks is about the best price I have been able to find it at.

    I've also always wondered about an -06 version
     
  19. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Mark, you are right. Having collected western guns and memorabilia for 30 years, your #1 rule is my #1 rule. My '95 was basically a basket case: a prime candidate for what we did to it: resurrected it to be a presentation piece/hunting gun. I don't believe Mica's carbine would be hurt at all if he searched for upper handguard wood and matched it to the wear of the other wood on the gun, and found a saddle ring of complimentary wear. As with all rules, there are some exceptions. I will join you in a caution toward him against "restoring it". Again, nice '95 you have.
     
  20. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    well I would think replacing missing parts while being restoration would be more along the lines of repair.

    I guess I should have been much clearer. It's the rebluing and the altering of a firearm things like cutting back a barrel filing out rust pits, that tend to get problematic.,I assumed yours was beyond it's collectors value when you had it reworked which I have no problem with.

    But again as I said the firearm is mearly a possesion and a person can do with their possesionsas the chose. I know a lot of people would have a serious problem with how I am "restoring" my 1966 Chevelle or 1948 Willys CJ-2A so don't think I'm on my high horse. Just trying to caution a person or persons not "into" collectables. Here on this site firearm modifications seam to be very common. SO I thought I would mention the "rules"

    Looking forward to sharing reloading info with both of you guys.