(Video) Citizen Asserts his Open Carry Rights

Discussion in 'Legal & Political' started by DeathRattle, Jan 6, 2011.

  1. DeathRattle

    DeathRattle Member

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    CA Citizen asserts his Constitutional Rights, and films the encounter. This is a very inspiring video for all open carry advocates.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcFeBZ4p4D4





    *please don't let this devolve into cop-bashing.*
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2011
  2. keystir

    keystir Active Member

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    I thought the officer did a bang up good. From what I could tell in the little time we get to see of him on camera I'd sure like to have officer Kiefer patrolling my neighborhood. I understand what the fellow making the video is trying to do and that's fine and dandy but I'm sure officer Kiefer and the T1000 from terminator 2 that came in for backup woke up this morning with the hope of making the community he lives in a safer place not to be some kind of pawn in this guys fight to prove California's open carry laws are unconstitutional. And for the folks who think police officers are just supposed to nod and wave when every Tom, Dick, and Harry packing a hand cannon on their hip because "Criminals would never open carry" you are living in a friggin dream world. We just don't live in a society where the open carry of firearms is a mainstream, acceptable practice. People are going to call in, expect the police to come talk to you. Record the confrontation and report the incident to whom ever so you can help forward your cause but to get into a pis***g contest with the local officer or TSA agent who are just trying to their jobs as best they can only serves to waste everyone's time.
  3. Benny503

    Benny503 Well-Known Member

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    LoL, I think you are funny...Show me a gang banger (blood, crib, essay) get caught for open carry, beside rap music on MTV :bluelaugh::bluelaugh:
  4. keystir

    keystir Active Member

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    Yes I know, I'm practically a comedian. I should charge people for reading my posts. You're exactly right, I can't show you one because they know fine officers like Kyle Kiefer will do their jobs and come over and talk to them. If the police were not allowed to question anyone carrying a firearm and citizens who called in to report folks carrying a firearm were told that unfortunately the police could not approach that person until he/she shot someone than I would bet more "gang bangers" would open carry.
  5. Lange22250

    Lange22250 Active Member

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    Damn straight! My grandma was scared of blacks and mexicans, so she would call the cops when she saw them. The cops would come and "talk to them" and make them go away.

    Oh wait, that was harassment and illegal and immoral and even in Lake Oswego they don't pull that bubblegum any more. So maybe this kind of thing is a good idea.
    The cop just wasted everyone's time, I can guarentee that there was some one with a warrent for a violent crime he could have been tracking down or a property crime he could have been investigating. The last person I would worry about would be the OC dude.
  6. keystir

    keystir Active Member

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    And que the righties equating a police officer questioning someone who is open carrying to the oppression of Blacks, Mexicans, Jews, and Native Americans in 5,4,3,2, and go.
  7. DeathRattle

    DeathRattle Member

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    You didn't read Lang22250's whole post.

    He was clearly being sarcastic.

    Provocatuer.
  8. keystir

    keystir Active Member

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    Oh but I did. He was clearly being condescending and I know exactly what he was saying. A tried and true method by you folks when you know you've been caught, "Oh it was a joke, he was being sarcastic." Sorry, but nice try.
  9. spengo

    spengo Active Member

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    Actually I thought the police in the vid were very polite and respectful. After he said he'd only comply with a search under protest and duress they pretty much just stood around doing nothing. They didn't even say anything or get uppity with him, just let him ramble on about his rights. They did stand around looking silly, but whatever, that's pretty good for California I think.
  10. Lange22250

    Lange22250 Active Member

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    So let me get this straight. If your minding your own business and the police stop or otherwise detain you without probable cause, or in the above case with out any real reason, it should not be viewed as coercing or intimidation? Literally the same tactics used by law enforcement to exclude people that were not acceptable to the powers that be over the entire history of this country. I would say it is a course of action with clear chilling effects and should be met with any legal resistance at every opportunity.
    That guy has every right to walk down the street with his pistol and unless the officer has PC to belive a law is being broken he should go do something productive. Should the cops stop and question every one with a child just in case they might be kidnapping the kid?
    The whole gang banger open carry is about as ridiculous as I have ever heard. Try to find a banger who has not had multiple interactions including arrests with law enforcement. So they know the cops recognize them, they know they can go in for weapon possession and they are still going to hang it out in plain sight?
  11. keystir

    keystir Active Member

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    I'll make it as straight for you as I can. If your sitting around, minding your own business, sipping a latte, carrying a glock 23 on your hip I have no problem with the police asking you a few questions and no I don't think that is coercion or intimidation. We obviously disagree on this and a thoughtful debate can be had but I think it's a bit much to equate your decision to open carry to the plight of minorities. From what I could tell California has a law that allows police officers to inspect an open carried firearm to verify it is not loaded. I don't see any reason why the officer could not have gone forward with that search in the restaurant other than it was private property. I guess the officer could have spoken with the management and asked if they knew the individual was open carrying and if they wanted him to verify the weapon was not loaded or waited until the guy walked outside.

    The frontline guys at the TSA or your local police officers are just regular guys like you and me trying to raise families and earn a good living. Sorry to say but Open Carry advocates are not the only group of people out there who take minute details from local or federal law and then try a gotcha routine with the cops when they are just out doing their job. Granted I don't have my finger on the pulse of the open carry community but it seems the majority of these videos is some young fellow who acts like the most egregious crime known to man and how dare they assume he is a criminal when police officers approach them to ask them why they are carrying. If Open Carry advocates want to further their cause I would suggest a different approach then trying to embarrass the officer because he does not know every fine minutia of the law, putting it on Youtube and justifying it because by God they should know everything about my individual cause.
  12. spengo

    spengo Active Member

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    On principle, I am opposed to the idea that police should be able to search the guy. In this video I think the guy open carrying was being a bit of a jerk though. If it was me, I would have given the initial spiel about only complying with a search under protest and duress (though with a less offensive demeanor) but then I would have immediately dropped the issue. Maybe try to strike up a friendly conversation on some other subject, or offer to buy him a drink. The officer did not push for the search, he let the guy be. I would be carrying for different reasons though, this guy's agenda appears to be "I can do this and you can't do that, har-de-har." My agenda would be "I can do this and I want to show that not everyone that does this is a complete dickwad."

    I find it beneficial to be on friendly terms with the local police for many reasons. If I lived in CA another would be that afterward I could open carry without much confrontation at all if the police got to know me, thereby enabling me to legally defend myself without causing such interruptions in the future. Actually, if I was going to visit CA today and do unloaded open carry, I would call the local PD of the city I will be walking around in first and inform them of my intentions. That way when retarded soccer moms (no offense to the intelligent soccer moms of course!) call in about a guy with a gun they don't freak out and send SWAT teams.
  13. VW_Factor

    VW_Factor Active Member

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    These are only a few questions..

    However, do you feel that because they are regular guys just doing their jobs to raise families, that makes it ok for them to violate your rights?

    How do you know they are just regular guys trying to earn a living?

    Would it not be ok if they were not regular guys?
  14. clearconscience

    clearconscience Well-Known Member

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    Seems like a weird law that you can carry a gun, but it can't be loaded? But you can have full mags on the other hip?
    Weird, my question is why not just leave the mag out of the gun. LEOs can see there's no mag, although there could be a round chambered. And it would be easier to load a full mag in a bad situation. I'm still mixed on open carry. I hate the thought of some dirtbag coming up behind me and shooting me in the back of the head and taking my gun.
    But then again I love the feeling of open carry, for comfort, easy access, etc.
    As much as I hate most of the guys like this being jack hoffs to LEOs, this guy did do this i a respectful and correct manner not to give people like us a bad name and reason to take away our rights.
    I do believe demonstrations like this need to occur more often to give the LEOs more consciencous mond of our citizens weapons laws and how to react to such situations to not discriminate guns owners, and not to allow situations like this to escalate.
  15. Teufel_Hunden

    Teufel_Hunden Active Member

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    The problem with open carry is that its uncommon. IF people commonly excercised thier open carry rights the public at large would not dial 911 every time they saw a weapon. The same thing can be said about the officers. They DID respond (apparently) within the law but something tells me if this guy hadn't known his rights exactly all kinds of searches, questions and records checks would have gone on.

    I think we will either make open carry a normal occurance OR the right will slowly dwindle away until it is illegal.

    Just having a weapon shouldn't cause an issue.


    T_H
  16. clearconscience

    clearconscience Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    I think everyone should not only make it a joined effort to make people more aware of the laws, but also make ourselves more away of the laws and know as the guy in this video did what practice and laws are ok, and what are not.
    That way we educate eveyone that we are not only exercising our rights, but also doing so in a respectful and legal way. We're not just some dumb rednecks trying to push the law.
    If this guy didn't know the legality of searches and what the legal term was for them the situation could have turned into this guy being in cuffs in the back of a car. You could tell the officer had no idea about the law until the citizen schooled him on it, and he was forced to then call his supervisor to confirm what the citizen stated. This just shouldn't be the case.
  17. keystir

    keystir Active Member

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    Absolutely not. What I do feel is that because they are regular guys just doing their jobs that they shouldn't be used as pawns by people who carry around video camera's, copies of the constitution and a page out of a voluminous legal statute or code book which they have memorized and done their own legal interpretation of said code or statute that were written by pencil pushing bureaucrats and then trying to make the police officer look like a fool. (run on sentence, sorry) And just because YOU say or think something is violating your rights doesn't make you automatically off limits for your actions. In this particular case the fellow who was being questioned felt that the officer would be violating his 4th amendment rights by doing a lawful check to see if his weapon was unloaded. It's not the Officer's job to make an on the spot interpretation of the local legal statutes to verify the constitutionality of the statute and I resent that the fellow was attempting to do that. My point is go to the source, the Bureaucrats who wrote the laws and not waste the time of our tax payer funded law enforcement officers who have better things to do.
  18. Teufel_Hunden

    Teufel_Hunden Active Member

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    Thats right. Know the law or find another line of work.
  19. FritZ PDX

    FritZ PDX New Member

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    I think the cop's did a great job, I feel from watching the video the guy filming was instigating an argument and trying to provoke the police. All they did was ask him a simple question, and he went all cocky saying he doesn't submit to any searches???
  20. Modeler

    Modeler Soccer Fan Bronze Supporter

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    "So now according to the advice given to me by my attorney I'm invoking my right to remain silent. Ok? So I have nothing else further to say to you guys... to you gentlemen."

    (2 seconds later...)

    "So are we just going to sit here and stare at each other or what?"

    I thought you were going to remain silent! I hate it when people go back on their word. ;) ;)

    Greg