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If this was a hoax or a vengeful ERPO, there might be a pay day at the end of it all, and it won't be peanuts.
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I could understand if he had a beef with hierarchy and he wanted to kill those select few people but I'll never understand why these nuts want to shoot people they haven't even met...I assume he has some personal beef with the hierarchy. This smacks of the typical workplace shooting rampage, when someone unhinged feels "slighted" or " undervalued ".
C'mon man, you never heard of pre-cog?Meh... that was just virtue signaling the party rhetoric BS. There are already laws on the books authorizing them to seize the firearms involved during the commission of a crime. He was arrested and charged... which has nothing to do with pre-emptive "may be a danger to himself or others" red flag laws.... where due process does not exist.
Not much to understand. They are nuts.I could understand if he had a beef with hierarchy and he wanted to kill those select few people but I'll never understand why these nuts want to shoot people they haven't even met...
She also told me that the Grand Jury is only allowed to use the information presented by the DA, which means that the DA has complete control of the process. This makes the Grand Jury simply a rubber stamp.The three items listed contradict the statement that "the judge advised that there were just a few items they were to consider." Item 3 involves everything that the prosecution has presented. That is dozens to hundreds or thousands of things. Everything available at that time. Items 1 & 2 just establish that the county has jurisdiction and everyone is talking about the same case. Maybe the judge elaborated by saying don't consider what the media are saying. And don't consider whether you think the accused is guilty or innocent; that is the job of the jury. Your job is to determine whether the state has enough evidence to warrant a trial at all.
Yes, the DA has control over what is presented to the grand jury. However, DAs probably dial back the unreasonable charges from cops much, maybe most of the time, realizing that they need to convince a grand jury. So the grand jury may play an important role even if they usually agree with the DA. A DA who simply lies to the grand jury in ways that are going to come out in the trial is being really stupid. In the case in your example, the judge was so angry over the DA's lie he dismissed the case with prejudice. Basically, once cops charge a guy with everything they want, there are four levels of review standing between those charges and a conviction--DAs, grand juries, judges, and a jury.She also told me that the Grand Jury is only allowed to use the information presented by the DA, which means that the DA has complete control of the process. This makes the Grand Jury simply a rubber stamp.
To put this in perspective, this County had a case in which one man was holding a knife to the throat of another man (and holding him from behind), while stating his intention to kill him. A third man stepped up from behind the aggressor and cut his throat to defend the victim. The DA charged the third party with Second Degree Murder and failed to tell the Grand Jury about the actions leading up to the death. Once the case came to trail and the Judge heard the testimony of the witnesses, he threw out the case, with prejudice, meaning it could not be retried. The Judge based his ruling on case law for self-defense. Fortunately, this case was not heard in Multnomah County.
Meanwhile, the taxpayers incurred the cost of the pre-trial incarceration, public defender, and the cost of the mercifully short jury trial.
And the guy charged had to suffer through jail time, the humiliation of being booked and charged, and the stress of the possibility of serious prison time. Could have lost his job too.She also told me that the Grand Jury is only allowed to use the information presented by the DA, which means that the DA has complete control of the process. This makes the Grand Jury simply a rubber stamp.
To put this in perspective, this County had a case in which one man was holding a knife to the throat of another man (and holding him from behind), while stating his intention to kill him. A third man stepped up from behind the aggressor and cut his throat to defend the victim. The DA charged the third party with Second Degree Murder and failed to tell the Grand Jury about the actions leading up to the death. Once the case came to trail and the Judge heard the testimony of the witnesses, he threw out the case, with prejudice, meaning it could not be retried. The Judge based his ruling on case law for self-defense. Fortunately, this case was not heard in Multnomah County.
Meanwhile, the taxpayers incurred the cost of the pre-trial incarceration, public defender, and the cost of the mercifully short jury trial.
That may not have been the end of the story. Guy charged with murder may have sued county for illegal arrest and illegal prosecution, etc. A good lawyer might be able to win big bucks for the the victim of such legal system misconduct with that case.And the guy charged had to suffer through jail time, the humiliation of being booked and charged, and the stress of the possibility of serious prison time. Could have lost his job too.
If C was hit by A's shot as a result of MISSING B, who he had intended to kill then A should have been charged with something equating as intentional and NOT an accident considering his original intent was to KILL B.That A had shot C, not B. And he shot him by accident, not on purpose.
Great info, but still, if you were to tell me here's a million dollars, but you have to go through a trial and there's a 20% chance you'll be convicted of murder and go to prison for a decade, I'd pick no without a second thought. In other words, it would be nice for him to win a bunch of money, but it's not going to make up for what he went through.That may not have been the end of the story. Guy charged with murder may have sued county for illegal arrest and illegal prosecution, etc. A good lawyer might be able to win big bucks for the the victim of such legal system misconduct with that case.
A was not charged with any crime against C, accidental or deliberate. The detective and entire prosecution had not realized that there was a C. They thought A had actually shot the guy that he had threatened. Juries are charged with deciding only on the explicit charges.If C was hit by A's shot as a result of MISSING B, who he had intended to kill then A should have been charged with something equating as intentional and NOT an accident considering his original intent was to KILL B.
ANY injuries to anyone as a result of his ORIGINAL intent should be considered INTENTIONAL as they would NOT have happened if he had never attempted to kill B in the first place.
This is not unlike how a driver of a vehicle might be charged with something similar if the passenger commits a crime (say exits the vehicle and commits the crime) and the driver knowingly was aware of it or was acting as an accomplice in the crime
Right. But if a DA has cost the county huge amounts of money by lying so blatant it probably affects his credibility on future cases and probably his career. It seems many jurisdictions tolerate all kinds of dishonesty in the legal process up until it starts costing them a whole lot of money.Great info, but still, if you were to tell me here's a million dollars, but you have to go through a trial and there's a 20% chance you'll be convicted of murder and go to prison for a decade, I'd pick no without a second thought. In other words, it would be nice for him to win a bunch of money, but it's not going to make up for what he went through.
I've heard of them and they're a terrific organization. Started with a group of law students, I seem to recall?Right. But if a DA has cost the county huge amounts of money by lying so blatant it probably affects his credibility on future cases and probably his career. It seems many jurisdictions tolerate all kinds of dishonesty in the legal process up until it starts costing them a whole lot of money.
The Innocence Project has saved many innocent people of wrongful convictions for murders and/or rapes based upon DNA analysis, a method that didn't exist when the crimes were committed. In many cases, the DAs did everything they could to delay the release of the guys who have been definitively shown not to be a match for the DNA of the murderer. It doesn't give one much confidence in the legal apparatus.
Right. But if a DA has cost the county huge amounts of money by lying so blatant it probably affects his credibility on future cases and probably his career. It seems many jurisdictions tolerate all kinds of dishonesty in the legal process up until it starts costing them a whole lot of money.
The Innocence Project has saved many innocent people of wrongful convictions for murders and/or rapes based upon DNA analysis, a method that didn't exist when the crimes were committed. In many cases, the DAs did everything they could to delay the release of the guys who have been definitively shown not to be a match for the DNA of the murderer. It doesn't give one much confidence in the legal apparatus.
That was a different case, one of murder. The DA used an "Expert" witness to link .22 LR bullets found in the victims with ammunition found in the garage of the accused. This was using an analysis of lead used to make the bullets, and the jury accepted that evidence as sufficient to convict.That may not have been the end of the story. Guy charged with murder may have sued county for illegal arrest and illegal prosecution, etc. A good lawyer might be able to win big bucks for the the victim of such legal system misconduct with that case.
Likewise. I suspect that innocent people are convicted more often for heinous crimes than routine crimes because LE and DAs are under much greater public pressure to "solve" the crime than with more ordinary crimes. LE is under greater pressure to plant stuff or disappear or ignore inconvenient evidence. DA and Sheriff careers may be positively influenced by "solving" the big heinous crimes. In many cases where the Innocence Project had definitive DNA evidence of innocence, the prosecution had evidence that would have caused most jurors to say that at the least there was insufficient evidence to be sure beyond reasonable doubt but the prosecution withheld that evidence from the defendant and his lawyers.One of the reasons I don't believe in the death penalty in our current system.
But we currently now have DNA testing, greater burdens of proof and requirements to even put the death penalty on the table (in the states that actually still have the death penalty). I don't doubt there are wrongful convictions, but for every 1... what about the couple 1000 others that rightfully deserve the ultimate penalty? How many years of life do they all represent that the people are on the hook paying their bills, free medical (that many free people don't even have access to), feeding them while children are still going hungry in the U.S., etc etc.One of the reasons I don't believe in the death penalty in our current system.
There are absolutely many truly evil people behind bars deserving of swift execution. No question.But we currently now have DNA testing, greater burdens of proof and requirements to even put the death penalty on the table (in the states that actually still have the death penalty). I don't doubt there are wrongful convictions, but for every 1... what about the couple 1000 others that rightfully deserve the ultimate penalty? How many years of life do they all represent that the people are on the hook paying their bills, free medical (that many free people don't even have access to), feeding them while children are still going hungry in the U.S., etc etc.
I consider too that of all those on death row, only a tiny fractional number will ever actually be executed. In 2022... there were SEVEN out of thousands. A "death sentence"... in reality... is anything but... and wrongfully accused serving a death sentence or a 20 year bid makes no difference if they are ultimately found innocent, right(?)
Should I say I support the death penalty without saying I support the death penalty?
Remember the plot to kidnap Michigan Governor Whitmer?This kind of reminds me of how Feds "foiled" a plot to put grenades in trash cans at a local mall, cherryvale mall, in northern Illinois. It's a mall near my old hometown.
Turns out a FBI informant targeted this young man because he was an outcast of his Muslim community/family. The informant moved the young man into his house. Basically radicalized him and gave him the idea to commit the whole crime. Set the young man up with a person, well actually not a person but the Feds themselves, willing to "trade" hand grenades for an old stereo or speakers, the only possessions the young man had to trade.
So the Feds created a terroristic act that they then "foiled."
I didn't bother finding all the investigative reports about the case but it was this incident.
Man arrested for alleged holiday bomb plot
A Muslim convert who talked about his desire to wage jihad against civilians was charged Friday in a plot to set off hand grenades at a shopping mall during the Christmas rush, authorities said.www.nbcnews.com