1911 gurus, a few questions

[ZA_Survivalist]

Seeking a little bit more information on my RIA 45 and 9mm officer models and their extractors:

They are a series 70 I take it. Extractor was stiff to extract without pushing the claw inward to which I could then pull out. I noticed once I had removed it that it was purposely bent or "angled" to provide tension. I get that the metal is way too strong to have been bent via use, so I assume it's the design.

I came to the realization that I have mostly 80's series 1911s, I truly enjoy the 1911 platform and have taken apart all of them and and am familiar with 80's series 1911s, but when I fully disassembled my officers model I was a little surprised I didn't notice that difference. I was more focused on the bull barrel design this whole time but I never took the slide assemblies completely apart due to lowish rounds (sub 500). Feel a bit silly for not having noticed that.

I've heard the extractor tension is a sort of art in and of itself with 1911's because it cannot be too stiff or too loose.

1. Has anyone got a solid replacement online source or brand for a 70's series RIA officers 1911? I just want a source for a replacement for a just in case breakage scenario.

2. Are they (70's series extractors) all just the same as standard 1911 models? As in, do the 70's extractors fit all 3 "models"
(full, commander and officer)

3. Has anyone ever replaced their (specifically) RIA officer model extractor?

4. Did you have to modify or tweak your replacement extractor at all? Knowing how 1911's can be, I expect this.

Let me know what help and info you can provide, Thank you 1911 gurus!

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[spookshack]

@Cerberus Group is the expert I would defer to for all things 1911…..

 

[Cerberus Group]

First to stir the pot a bit, and lick the spoon...

Series 70 is a model from Colt's Manufacturing which was made from 1970 to 1983. Kinda like Chevrolet Camaro, or Ford Mustang...Colt Series 70. For some obnoxious reason someone decided to apply it to all 1911's that do not have a firing pin safety. If that person is ever found, they will be beat...yes, sometimes violence IS the answer.

The 1911 has two weak areas...the magazine and the extractor.

To go over the OP's post;

The easiest way to determine of any 1911 has a firing pin safety, lock the slide back and turn it over...you'll see the plunger along side the disconnect rail.

To keep with the jargon of the day...differences between Series 70 and Series 80





Depending on tolerances within the slide, sometimes the extractor will need to be pushed more center line to get enough force on the case rim to properly handle the case during both chambering and extraction. If the extractor channel is a bit out of spec, the pads on the extractor itself will need to be dressed down to obtain the proper tension. I prefer 24 - 27oz of extractor tension.

The pads can be seen here about midway from either end.



Extractor tension is critical as the 1911 was designed as a firearm that has direct handling of the round from initial stripping off the magazine to extraction. As the round is tripped from the magazine, the case rim slides under the extractor claw...IT DOES NOT SNAP OVER IT. Want to ruin a properly tuned 1911 extractor...allow the hook to snap over a case rim a few times.

The extractors are different for 1911's with and without the firing pin safety. A firing pin safety designed extractor can be used in either, but a non firing pin safety extractor can only be used in 1911's without firing pin safeties.



Compare the 2 pics of extractors. The 1911 with a firing pin safety will have a cut out for the plunger near the firing pin retainer slot.



Answers to questions;

1 - Any reputable maker; Wilson, Harrison, EGW, Ed Brown. Stay away from MIM extractors...too many failures, and won't hold up to long term use. If you don't shoot the pistol much, than anything will work.

The original design extractor had a combo metal with spring steel.

2 - Yes

3 - Yes, I have done many

4 - All extractors need to be fitted to the individual pistol, and the extractor head needs to be worked over to improve round handling. Very few extractors come ready to use...my opinion.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

@Cerberus Group
Awesome, thank you very much for your info.
So it looks as if ever I do replace it if it ever breaks I should expect to have to invest time into fitting it.

Are the 70's series slightly bent in order to provide said tension? I see that without the firing pin safety it looks as if that's what gives the extractor tension.
Since that's the case, I noticed not many online have that bend, is this due to the end user needing to solidly bend it to best fit their 70's series 1911? Or should the 70's series extractors have that slight bend to begin with? Most online all looked straight.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Most every extractor has at least a slight bend to get proper tension on the case rim...both Series 70 and 80.

All extractors will come straight from the package, as with slight tolerance from one slide to the next, the amount of bend or tension needed is different...thus fitting is mandatory.

If you're close by, we can find a date/time where you can come by and we'll go over extractor fitting.

There's a tool for bending the extractor for proper tension...or do it the old way...insert the extractor backwards in the extractor tunnel, far enough so the adjustment pads are in the tunnel and give it a slight nudge with a light weight hammer.

 

[Quirt Evans]

A short read on extractors.
https://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Most every extractor has at least a slight bend to get proper tension on the case rim...both Series 70 and 80.

All extractors will come straight from the package, as with slight tolerance from one slide to the next, the amount of bend or tension needed is different...thus fitting is mandatory.

If you're close by, we can find a date/time where you can come by and we'll go over extractor fitting.

There's a tool for bending the extractor for proper tension...or do it the old way...insert the extractor backwards in the extractor tunnel, far enough so the adjustment pads are in the tunnel and give it a slight nudge with a light weight hammer.

Oh Excellent! I would love to learn the process, see how it's done and have a spare on hand for my 45!
I'll order one and be in touch!

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

A short read on extractors.
https://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm

Thank you, I'll read that now!

 

[orygun]

Series 70 is a model from Colt's Manufacturing which was made from 1970 to 1983. Kinda like Chevrolet Camaro, or Ford Mustang...Colt Series 70. For some obnoxious reason someone decided to apply it to all 1911's that do not have a firing pin safety. If that person is ever found, they will be beat...yes, sometimes violence IS the answer.

Calling the guns Series 70 or 80 is a nod to Colt, I believe, as they were the first. In defense of myself when referring to a non Colt 1911, I say Series 70 (or 80) style, and after having a 1911 NOT work when it should have, I'll not be owning any Series 80 style pistols ever again. Besides an issue with a couple of mags, the FPS is the only reason any of the 1911s I've owned didn't work. Not a good thing in my opinion.

 

[Cerberus Group]

Calling the guns Series 70 or 80 is a nod to Colt, I believe, as they were the first. In defense of myself when referring to a non Colt 1911, I say Series 70 (or 80) style, and after having a 1911 NOT work when it should have, I'll not be owning any Series 80 style pistols ever again. Besides an issue with a couple of mags, the FPS is the only reason any of the 1911s I've owned didn't work. Not a good thing in my opinion.

FPSs, just another thing to go wrong...especially the Schwartz style...most fragile design.

 

[edzz]

As Cerberus Group pointed out loading first round from the magazine is proper. Dropping a round in the chamber and allowing the slide to drop home can affect function, I will also add doing so will greatly increase the chance of the extractors hook breaking off. We do differ on method of adjusting tension, my prefeed method (dating back to my days at Detonics) is to insert extractor hook first into the firing pin hole and using thumb pressure to tweak.

 

[solv3nt]

My preferred method is to ship it to someone that has done thousands

 

[Cerberus Group]

As Cerberus Group pointed out loading first round from the magazine is proper. Dropping a round in the chamber and allowing the slide to drop home can affect function, I will also add doing so will greatly increase the chance of the extractors hook breaking off. We do differ on method of adjusting tension, my prefeed method (dating back to my days at Detonics) is to insert extractor hook first into the firing pin hole and using thumb pressure to tweak.

When were you at Detonics?

 

[edzz]

When were you at Detonics?

'79 and a bit before and after.

 

[Cerberus Group]

'79 and a bit before and after.

You were there the same time Neimer was there.

He started mentoring me back in the mid 80s

I ended up with all his tools and parts after he passed.

 

[edzz]

He was in my opinion a leader in reducing the problems that were at that time preventing the wide spread adoption of stainless steel in auto pistols. As far as I know Detonics was the first to market a practical non galling .45 auto.

Hadn't heard of his passing.

Was an interesting place to work and learn just wish the money was better.

 

[monkeybutler]

Now I am concerned about the MIM extractor in my 2008 Browning Hi Power MKIII. Hah.

 

[Cerberus Group]

He was in my opinion a leader in reducing the problems that were at that time preventing the wide spread adoption of stainless steel in auto pistols. As far as I know Detonics was the first to market a practical non galling .45 auto.

Hadn't heard of his passing.

Was an interesting place to work and learn just wish the money was better.

After Detonics closed, he was head of 1911s at Oly Arms.

Oly Arms had an indoor range for testing, but had some funky stairs leading down to it. He fell down the stairs, and banged his head pretty hard.

He was off for awhile after that, had balance issues etc. He was due to see a doc, but his daughter found him at the bottom of his stairs, broken neck...I think that was 2013 or 14.

A mutual friend of ours contacted me about the tools, parts etc , as his daughter didn't know what to do with everything.