Gun control laws do not apply to Native American reservations

[rjmt]

It has never been "my thing" and glad its not. Once in a blue moon I will do a little gambling for some fun. Never amounts to much. I have long said for those who like it? Hell why not as long as they can control themselves.

before I retired, my employers would send me to Atlantic City, Vicksburg, MS, Niagara Falls, Reno and Las Vegas on support calls because I don't gamble
yet there is enough disposable income in the Portland and Vancouver area for the Cowlitz to make $500 Million a year at Ilani Casino?
but the Cowlitz donate $28 Million a year to La Center and Clark Co, so I don't complain
if you get off I-5 in Washington state at exit 16, ether direction, you are on the Cowlitz reservation

 

[rjmt]

I read in a fiction book that the reason for kicking out members with reduced ancestry is the more purebred members don't want to share the casino money.

I hope that's not true.

every male of the Modoc tribe in North Cal was hung by the US Army in 1873 and the women were redistribute among other tribes on reservations
today, the Modocs are gathering every Native American with Modoc DNA to a reservation in Oklahoma to rebuild their tribal blood line
they would not give up their lands or guns so the US government sent an Army of 400 soldiers with artillery to wipe out the 22 Modocs and their blood line
but we must trust the Government and give up our firearms, they will protect us

 

[Knobgoblin]

every male of the Modoc tribe in North Cal was hung by the US Army in 1873 and the women were redistribute among other tribes on reservations
today, the Modocs are gathering every Native American with Modoc DNA to a reservation in Oklahoma to rebuild their tribal blood line
they would not give up their lands or guns so the US government sent an Army of 400 soldiers with artillery to wipe out the 22 Modocs and their blood line
but we must trust the Government and give up our firearms, they will protect us

 

[Andy54Hawken]

View attachment 1876650

Interesting rifle that fella has in the middle.
Not sure if it is loaded or capped....but the hammer is at full cock...
Andy

 

[Nosferatu]

Interesting rifle that fella has in the middle.
Not sure if it is loaded or capped....but the hammer is at full cock...
Andy

I believe that's his name: Sits with Full Cock.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Interesting rifle that fella has in the middle.
Not sure if it is loaded or capped....but the hammer is at full cock...
Andy

Trade musket?? It seems very short, but definitely not my field.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Trade musket?? It seems very short, but definitely not my field.

Naw...it is a rifle , not a musket or trade gun.
From the picture i'd say its the 1870's or 1880s date wise.
Short firearms were always popular out west.

What I'm more concerned about ...not that it matters now....
Is that hammer on the rifle is at full cock...which could lead to problems if the rifle was loaded and capped.
Andy

 

[lucusloc]

Naw...it is a rifle , not a musket or trade gun.
From the picture i'd say its the 1870's or 1880s date wise.

What I more concerned about ...not that it matters now....
Is that hammer on the rifle is at full cock...which could lead to problems if the rifle was loaded and capped.
Andy

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't is an issue for the rifle if you drop the hammer on an un-capped nipple? I was always told that would damage the nipple. You handle the rifle either half cock (if loaded and not ready to fire) or hammer down (no cap on the nipple). Though I do also wonder what the procedure is for older guns that don't have a half cock, but since those would be unlikely to be a percussion cap I doubt they had the same safety concerns. . .

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I believe that's his name: Sits with Full Cock.

Hmmm....
Well that is better than Goes off at half cock...
Andy

 

[rjmt]

"Half breed" here. Half German, half English. Neither race tends to good teeth, either.

my people are from North Ireland, but my father had red hair and was of Norwegian ancestry - Norse Vikings
our ancestors used to raid and pillage and dealt in the white slave trade - but Norse Vikings only dealt in English slaves, and every Irishman knows they were sub human

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't is an issue for the rifle if you drop the hammer on an un-capped nipple? I was always told that would damage the nipple. You handle the rifle either half cock (if loaded and not ready to fire) or hammer down (no cap on the nipple). Though I do also wonder what the procedure is for older guns that don't have a half cock, but since those would be unlikely to be a percussion cap I doubt they had the same safety concerns. . .

Yes it is harmful to the nipple if you drop the hammer on it...doing so can deform the nipple over time.
( And yeah I know where that sentence is going to end up at ... )

Many percussion guns of the period do not have a half cock...something to keep in mind with shooting or handing original / antique firearms.
Just like nowadays...keep yer finger off the trigger , till you are ready to shoot.

Safety concerns of the 1800's were a bit different for sure...
However...having a loaded and capped rifle while sitting should be a safety concern no matter the time period.

With all that said...
Many period pictures of the time used props...so it could be that the rifle in question is just that...a rifle used for a prop.
Andy

 

[Bobbygun]

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't is an issue for the rifle if you drop the hammer on an un-capped nipple?

Before anybody told me about this, I dry fired my Hawken a bunch. Then, when I went to put a cap on the nipple, it wouldn't fit. Fortunately, it was a relatively inexpensive/simple fix to replace it.

 

[gmerkt]

18 USC § 926A might apply to shipping as well as travelling with a firearm:

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof,

This is the part that might prevent tribal members from taking possession. If the tribal member left tribal lands to receive the firearm, he would be doing it in Washington state, not on tribal lands. Even if an FFL dealer resides on tribal lands, the firearm has to cross over other, prohibited parts of the state. Does that count?

 

[lucusloc]

Yes it is harmful to the nipple if you drop the hammer on it...doing so can deform the nipple over time.
( And yeah I know where that sentence is going to end up at ... )

Many percussion guns of the period do not have a half cock...something to keep in mind with shooting or handing original / antique firearms.
Just like nowadays...keep yer finger off the trigger , till you are ready to shoot.

Safety concerns of the 1800's were a bit different for sure...
However...having a loaded and capped rifle while sitting should be a safety concern no matter the time period.

With all that said...
Many period pictures of the time used props...so it could be that the rifle in question is just that...a rifle used for a prop.
Andy

See, I was aware that there were flintlocks without a half cock, but I would have assumed that by the time percussion guns became standard a half cock would have also been a standard. The only ones I have shot all had a half cock, but I am not even sure how many were actual historical pieces. That is something to be mindful of when I start moving my collection in that direction, so thank you very much for the tidbit of information.

 

[lucusloc]

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof,

This is the part that might prevent tribal members from taking possession. If the tribal member left tribal lands to receive the firearm, he would be doing it in Washington state, not on tribal lands. Even if an FFL dealer resides on tribal lands, the firearm has to cross over other, prohibited parts of the state. Does that count?

I would think in theory no, as interstate transportation laws would kick into effect? There is already some precedent that a state does not get to regulate <some item> just because it crosses their borders in transport from one state to another, and this absolutely applies to guns so long as no one actually receives the gun itself (i.e. it leaves the "shipping" status). See all the rules about flying with a gun through "problematic" airports, for example.

But I am also thinking there is a lot of unanswered legal questions here, and while everyone can presume answers no one will actually know for sure until it goes to court.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

See, I was aware that there were flintlocks without a half cock, but I would have assumed that by the time percussion guns became standard a half cock would have also been a standard. The only ones I have shot all had a half cock, but I am not even sure how many were actual historical pieces. That is something to be mindful of when I start moving my collection in that direction, so thank you very much for the tidbit of information.

You are very welcome.

I do shoot some of my antique muzzle loaders...
Might have to take a look and see what percentage of those have a half cock setting.....

In any event...
I do a thorough inspection of the firearm to include the lock works to see if it is shootable or worth making that way.
Sears , tumblers , mainsprings all can suffer from 100 plus years of use.
Luckily they are , usually , easy enough to replace.

And with that said...
It is wise to be picky about the work you do to an antique firearm.
It is very easy to turn a $1,000 plus firearm into a $100 firearm.

If you want to shoot a muzzle loader a lot...I would suggest a well crafted replica or reproduction.
Andy

Edit to add...
OP...sorry for the thread drift.

 

[Flopsweat]

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof,

This is the part that might prevent tribal members from taking possession. If the tribal member left tribal lands to receive the firearm, he would be doing it in Washington state, not on tribal lands. Even if an FFL dealer resides on tribal lands, the firearm has to cross over other, prohibited parts of the state. Does that count?

What if they went to a neighboring state to purchase the rifle?

 

[rjmt]

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof,

This is the part that might prevent tribal members from taking possession. If the tribal member left tribal lands to receive the firearm, he would be doing it in Washington state, not on tribal lands. Even if an FFL dealer resides on tribal lands, the firearm has to cross over other, prohibited parts of the state. Does that count?

so, if a tribal member drive to Utah or Idaho to purchase such a firearm, then drive home to their tribal lands with it, who is Washington going to send onto tribal lands to confiscate it?
How is Washington State Law enforcement going to know?
private gun sales on gun broker are still legal in Utah and Idaho
there are no boarder inspection stations for firearms coming into Washington state
back in the day, when I worked in Spokane Valley, I would check gun broker from Idaho, drive across the border to Coeur D'alene, coming back, then drive back home with "stuff"

 

[Flopsweat]

so, if a tribal member drive to Utah or Idaho to purchase such a firearm, then drive home to their tribal lands with it, who is Washington going to send onto tribal lands to confiscate it?
How is Washington State Law enforcement going to know?
private gun sales on gun broker are still legal in Utah and Idaho
there are no boarder inspection stations for firearms coming into Washington state
back in the day, when I worked in Spokane Valley, I would check gun broker from Idaho, drive across the border to Coeur D'alene, coming back, then drive back home with "stuff"

They should have gun ranges on the reservations where you can go to shoot full auto.

 

[Sxsnuf]

It has never been "my thing" and glad its not. Once in a blue moon I will do a little gambling for some fun. Never amounts to much. I have long said for those who like it? Hell why not as long as they can control themselves.

In my vast gambling experience I've discovered the secret, for me anyway. As soon as I step through the door of the casino, I throw $50 on the floor. Then I get back in my car and go somewhere for a nice meal and cocktails.
It's cheaper, less frustrating and far more enjoyable!