Officers Kill Veteran

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics, & Training' started by DeathRattle, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. DeathRattle

    DeathRattle Member

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  2. dmancornell

    dmancornell Banned

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  3. keystir

    keystir Active Member

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    And multiple witness accounts also contradict themselves as well. And I can assure you there is much more to this story than what we just read. His friends were more than forthcoming about their buddies past until just prior to the incident when they decide to clam up. It's extremely unfortunate that a Veteran lost his life over this incident but I have a feeling this was a very troubled man and thanks to the bravery of some fine police officers his life was the only one lost that day.
  4. trainsktg

    trainsktg Well-Known Member

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    Well, these are some of the civilian witness statements:


    Amesbury heard, "I told you to stop. Stop."

    Two witnesses interviewed Sunday heard, "Drop it."

    A fourth witness, interviewed Saturday, heard, "Get down," "Put it down," or "Get out of the way."

    A second anonymous witness said Sunday he saw Scott pull up his shirt and turn toward the shouting officer. Then he saw the man get shot, drop to his knees and fall face-first in front of the entrance.


    Also, here's a little gem from the second article:

    Scott carried a Ruger .380 semi-automatic handgun and a .45-caliber Kimber single-action pistol. The Kimber was found in its holster not far from where Scott’s body landed after he was shot.

    It doesn't sound like this is a cut and dried indictment of police malfeasance. There's more here to the story then this short article reports. (Also, family members and friends saying that Scott was a 'standup guy' etc have no bearing on the case.)

    Keith
  5. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich Well-Known Member

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    if his character has no bearing on the case, why have the LVSO and DA's office gone to massive lengths to release every negative detail about his life they can come up with?
  6. trainsktg

    trainsktg Well-Known Member

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    Read both linked articles. Especially the second. How many stories have we heard relatives of murderers described as 'a great family man'? Such statements in a courtroom are probably appropriate, but in a newspaper article are only included to garner a certain public sentiment. Notice how the family is saying that "Costco killed Erik". Big lawsuits are afoot in this family's plans, you need a sympathetic jury to win the big money.

    Nearby citizens hearing what they heard, and a gun, albeit holstered, nearby the body, certainly makes it sound suspiciously like the guy went for a gun. (I would have to draw my gun with its holster too, but it is designed to shoot through if I have to, so I can see this possibly being the case here as well.)

    People go nuts, whether they have Masters degrees, or are good fathers, or are veterans.

    Keith
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  7. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich Well-Known Member

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    i've already read literally dozens of articles on this BS, having followed it closely since it happened last summer.

    he did not "go for the gun," he tried to comply with conflicting orders, and was shot for it.
  8. trainsktg

    trainsktg Well-Known Member

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    As a side note, look at the incredibly accurate Curly impression the LVSO sheriff is performing.

    Keith
  9. trainsktg

    trainsktg Well-Known Member

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    Well then you have more information than I, I only have these two articles to review.

    Keith
  10. Ben Beckerich

    Ben Beckerich Well-Known Member

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  11. titsonritz

    titsonritz Well-Known Member

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    bkb it right. I remember when this happened and have been following it as well. The cops choked and are covering their a$$e$.
  12. trainsktg

    trainsktg Well-Known Member

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    Well, since there appears to be no witnesses/customers anywhere describing the man as being belligerent before the shooting, this certainly lends some suspicion on the sheriffs' actions. It looks like Scott may indeed have 'been made' by an employee and got shot for attempting to follow conflicting orders. Too bad for all.

    So...how about that Curly impression? You gotta eat a lot of donuts to get it that accurate.

    Keith
  13. silentslammer

    silentslammer Member

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    maybe its time all cops wear a small device on their person that records all audio & video footage while on duty. Sorta like those helmet cams but smaller. After all, their job is to protect and serve so there shouldnt be a problem just as most work places have cameras fixed on employees and the work stations. That should take care of ensuring the truth be told in all police vs citizen incidents.
  14. keystir

    keystir Active Member

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    Good thought. I bet you these days are not to far away. It doesn't seem like to long ago when dash cam's were the hot new things.
  15. dmancornell

    dmancornell Banned

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    Hah fat chance. In some states it's illegal for mere civilians to videotape cops:

    Watching the Detectives - Reason Magazine

    What's the chance we can force them to wear such a device, and make the undoctored footage public? Zero.
  16. A2theK

    A2theK Member

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    Yep, but every time we see video of potential misconduct people whine and cry about how you didn't see what happened before of after the video.

    Hey whatever happened to the officer(s) that stomped that Latino Army guy in Seattle? Oh yeah nothing... No recourse.

    We're being conditioned people. No one deserves the benefit of the doubt. Priests, doctors, teachers, Scout Leaders, police, even some kids parents - No one. To do so skews the justice system.
  17. NuthinFancy

    NuthinFancy Active Member

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    I don't think that cameras are the solution.

    Consider the incidents that happen now with existing videotape. Both sides of the shooting still argue, because no matter what is captured on film, it is all open to interpretation.

    Also, (not to make light of police involved shootings) look at NFL replays. No matter how many angles of a play they get, how close they can zoom in, how slow the slo-mo can get, the calls are usually so close that there is no absolute certainty.
  18. titsonritz

    titsonritz Well-Known Member

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  19. ejmpnu92

    ejmpnu92 Active Member

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    San Jose PD now uses cameras on their person. A couple of years ago, a foreign student had the crud kicked out of him by a couple of cops, (before the personal cameras) but there was a lot of audio. The kid was accusing the cops of racism and excessive force. The audio helped to prove this wrong. The kid just was not doing what he was told to do. I am sure there is a little more to it than that, but at least he was not shot. However, this was the incident caused the SJPD go to video cameras.
  20. jdub75

    jdub75 Well-Known Member

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    This story makes me really think about my choice to carry concealed, and how I might handle being 'outed.' Maybe that is what should be discussed, rather than all the hypotheticals about the cops, witnesses & victim here? What woul YOU do if outed in Costco/Walmart/the bank???