556 Case Trim Reloading Question

[Pahonix]

First off, I've never reloaded 556 or any other rifle round so I'm very new to this. I've only reloaded 9mm on a single stage Lee press and have had decent results (about 3000 rounds), but still very green to reloading.

At what point in the reloading process do you trim your case? (Note: I am using Lee 3 die set)

Here is my process for 9mm....

Tumble to clean/shine
Deprime and size
Prime and expanding
Powder fill
Bullet seat and crimp

Read More

 

[Xmark1]

As long as the case length is below maximum case length, there is no need to trim.
Rifle brass tends to stretch out longer when fired. Pistol brass, not so much.

 

[oremike]

You trim after sizing and when they are exceeding the max length which for .223 is1.760" as per the Hornady book.

 

[Member 34319]

Get a quick gauge and pass each case through it. If it fits, no trimming needed, doesn't fit, trim it.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Measure them after sizing and if they need trimming, trim them.

 

[Mikej]

Note that the Speer #14 book gives Minimum AND maximum trim-to lengths.
.223 Rem shows...
Max 1.760"
Min 1.750"

I trim rifle and roll-crimped handgun cases for uniformity. Not necessarily to minimum.

 

[oneshotkyle]

Deprime
Tumble
Swage if necessary
Size
Trim

You could do a size/trim die with electric trimmer or router in 223/5.56 and get it in one pass

 

[Pahonix]

Great answers, thank you everyone for the advice.

I'll trim if necessary after sizing doing a max length of 1.760.

 

[Pahonix]

Note that the Speer #14 book gives Minimum AND maximum trim-to lengths.
.223 Rem shows...
Max 1.760"
Min 1.750"

I trim rifle and roll-crimped handgun cases for uniformity. Not necessarily to minimum.

So what would you do with this one? (I didn't trim this, just a random spent casing)



It's 1.7395"

 

[Mono1]

Note that the Speer #14 book gives Minimum AND maximum trim-to lengths.
.223 Rem shows...
Max 1.760"
Min 1.750"

Mikej , pardon the dumb question, but would 5.56 and .223 be the same length?

Thanks.

 

[oremike]

So what would you do with this one? (I didn't trim this, just a random spent casing)

View attachment 1101116

It's 1.7395"

It needs to be sized first then measured, I'd tumble it as well.

 

[DLS]

Mikej , pardon the dumb question, but would 5.56 and .223 be the same length?

Thanks.

Yes, the case dimensions for .223 and 5.56 are identical.

Edited to add: Sorry I didn't see this was to @Mikej

 

[DLS]

... At what point in the reloading process do you trim your case? (Note: I am using Lee 3 die set)

Here is my process for 9mm....

I've never trimmed straight wall "Browning Pattern" (headspaces on case mouth) pistol brass. The case mouth begins to split, or the rims get too chewed up to continue using long before the case grows to trim length.

I trim revolver brass when I use a roll crimp. I trim to the shortest case in the batch and do this to get more uniform crimps.

Bottle neck cartridges are a whole different animal, and case length needs to be watched.

Hope this helps.

 

[Saladfarmer]

If you don't have one, get the LE Wilson gauge for 223

L.E. Wilson Case Length Headspace Ga Brass 243 Winchester

L.E. Wilson has been making precision reloading tools for over 80 years. The Case Length Headspace Gauge allows reloaders to measure case length from...

www.midwayusa.com

If you are reloading for AR or auto loading platform I would HIGHLY recommend using a small bass set or AR type sizing dies at the least and taper crimp.
as the regular Lee dies may not get the brass all the way back to your proper chamber size.. Depending on if you are just using the same brass for the same rifle or reusing brass from other guns or range brass. the extra.002 or so make A LOT of difference i have found.

The LE Wilson gauge will also show you if you need to trim it back or if you aren't sizing correctly. It made a huge difference for me at least.

My process for necked brass
(1)dry tumble first, inspect
(2) lube and decap/size, inspect, random LE Wilson gauge check
(3) wet sonic (Elvis style) dish detergent and citric acid 20 mins
then rinse and dry in oven at 100deg, for 20 mins
(4) trim on prep station, clean out residual primer pocket crust, check in LE Wilson gauge
(5) ready to load

 

[DizzyJ]

You trim after sizing and when they are exceeding the max length which for .223 is1.760" as per the Hornady book.

This right here.

 

[DizzyJ]

Note that the Speer #14 book gives Minimum AND maximum trim-to lengths.
.223 Rem shows...
Max 1.760"
Min 1.750"

I trim rifle and roll-crimped handgun cases for uniformity. Not necessarily to minimum.

I've got some once fired Federal brass that's 1.740"
I'll not throw it out because it's too short. I'll keep loading and shooting it.

 

[ron]

So what would you do with this one? (I didn't trim this, just a random spent casing)

View attachment 1101116

It's 1.7395"

Anything less than 1.740 goes into the 'short' pile and loaded for plinkers. After tumbling I measure all my
rifle brass allowing for a little stretching after sizing everything over 1.750 goes into the "Need to Trim" pile.
I size the brass then use a WTF trimmer.

LITTLE CROW GUNWORKS WORLDS FINEST TRIMMER | Brownells

The “World’s Finest Trimmer” lets you trim more cases in less time - and with less effort - using your electric drill as a power source. The adjustable cutter rotates and shortens the case until the shoulder contacts the close-fitting stop that is...

www.brownells.com

If you don't have one, get the LE Wilson gauge for 223

L.E. Wilson Case Length Headspace Ga Brass 243 Winchester

L.E. Wilson has been making precision reloading tools for over 80 years. The Case Length Headspace Gauge allows reloaders to measure case length from...

www.midwayusa.com

If you are reloading for AR or auto loading platform I would HIGHLY recommend using a small bass set or AR type sizing dies at the least and taper crimp.
as the regular Lee dies may not get the brass all the way back to your proper chamber size.. Depending on if you are just using the same brass for the same rifle or reusing brass from other guns or range brass. the extra.002 or so make A LOT of difference i have found.

The LE Wilson gauge will also show you if you need to trim it back or if you aren't sizing correctly. It made a huge difference for me at least.

My process for necked brass
(1)dry tumble first, inspect
(2) lube and decap/size, inspect, random LE Wilson gauge check
(3) wet sonic (Elvis style) dish detergent and citric acid 20 mins
then rinse and dry in oven at 100deg, for 20 mins
(4) trim on prep station, clean out residual primer pocket crust, check in LE Wilson gauge
(5) ready to load

Standard RCBS full length dies will work fine. I load thousands of rounds of 223 match ammo annually.
The issue that a lot of first time bottle neck rifle reloaders run into is not sizing the brass to spec. The sizer
die needs to adjusted to size the shoulder of the brass to spec. You can measure the before and after
brass with an RCBS Precession Mic or a Hornady Headspace Comparator. For semiautomatic you
want to push the shoulder of the case to what a new factory ammo measures. Especially if you shoot
the reloads out of several different rifles like me. After sizing you should be able to chamber the brass
and withdraw it easily. The Wilson case gauge in my experience did not work for match rifle chamber.
https://www.hornady.com/headspace-bushings#!/

Precision Mic | RCBS

RCBS Precision Mics determine chamber headspace and bullet seat depth by measuring from the datum point on the case shoulder to the base of the case.

www.rcbs.com

 

[Mikej]

So what would you do with this one? (I didn't trim this, just a random spent casing)

View attachment 1101116

It's 1.7395"

Guess you got your answer, huh? I didn't realize you measured BEFORE sizing.

I do like @ron does. Except I'm not so concerned about trimming brass to the minimum, To me, as long as all case are below that max length by a good .004" that's good enough for me. Spend more time grinding brass if you want. But that Little Crow trimmer looks fun, so there's that. And for my purposes if I ran into a piece of brass that was a few thousandths short I wouldn't toss it. It'll still hold the bullet fine and have same COAL as the others.
I don't use case gauges. I use a Hornady Comparator, $35.00-$40.00 and it will do all bottle neck cases(As far as I know), compared to the LE Wilson case gauges at $28.00 each. The case gauge seems neat, but it doesn't tell you in .002"-.004" where the shoulder is at. https://www.brownells.com/reloading...ad-bullet-comparator-basic-set-prod35659.aspx
It measures the shoulder, which is what the case head spaces on.



Mmmm, that precision Mic looks like a fun toy Ron. I ought to ask you @ron . Are Garand chambers pretty uniform across the years? Generous? I just go by the book hoping I'm getting the proper OAL for my chambers on both rifles.

 

[ron]

Guess you got your answer, huh? I didn't realize you measured BEFORE sizing.

I do like @ron does. Except I'm not so concerned about trimming brass to the minimum, To me, as long as all case are below that max length by a good .004" that's good enough for me. Spend more time grinding brass if you want. But that Little Crow trimmer looks fun, so there's that. And for my purposes if I ran into a piece of brass that was a few thousandths short I wouldn't toss it. It'll still hold the bullet fine and have same COAL as the others.
I don't use case gauges. I use a Hornady Comparator, $35.00-$40.00 and it will do all bottle neck cases(As far as I know), compared to the LE Wilson case gauges at $28.00 each. The case gauge seems neat, but it doesn't tell you in .002"-.004" where the shoulder is at. https://www.brownells.com/reloading...ad-bullet-comparator-basic-set-prod35659.aspx
It measures the shoulder, which is what the case head spaces on.



Mmmm, that precision Mic looks like a fun toy Ron. I ought to ask you @ron . Are Garand chambers pretty uniform across the years? Generous? I just go by the book hoping I'm getting the proper OAL for my chambers on both rifles.

You can measure before or after doesn't matter. Just allow for case stretching a little when sizing. The reason I measure
before if the brass makes min/max OAL it goes right to the Dillon for loading. I hate trimming brass PIA. The little crow
trims from the case shoulder like a Geissele trimmer. You have to size before trimming. It also leaves a minimum amount
to debur and chamfer unlike other trimmers. First time brass is always trimmed and primmer pocket uniformed to
prevent a high primmer that can result in a slam fire. In order to produce match grade ammo uniform case neck tension
is critical. Different brands of brass will give very different accuracy. That is why I will cull brass too short. Save it for
plinking 55 FMJ what I call "Minute of Beer Can" loads.
Garands have generous chambers. O3s are tighter chambers. RCBS Precession Mic or the Hornady does the same job.
Both can be used to measure the fired case and push back the shoulder a few thousands for a bolt gun. For a semiauto
push back the shoulder to what a new round of ammo measures. OAL and sizing the brass to spec are two different
things. You should be able to chamber a sized piece of brass and remove it with little effort. If not the case shoulder
needs to be pushed back more. To long of a case might crimp the case to the bullet in the chamber resulting in excessive pressure.

 

[Mikej]

You can measure before or after doesn't matter. Just allow for case stretching a little when sizing. The reason I measure
before if the brass makes min/max OAL it goes right to the Dillon for loading. I hate trimming brass PIA. The little crow
trims from the case shoulder like a Geissele trimmer. You have to size before trimming. It also leaves a minimum amount
to debur and chamfer unlike other trimmers. First time brass is always trimmed and primmer pocket uniformed to
prevent a high primmer that can result in a slam fire. In order to produce match grade ammo uniform case neck tension
is critical. Different brands of brass will give very different accuracy. That is why I will cull brass too short. Save it for
plinking 55 FMJ what I call "Minute of Beer Can" loads.
Garands have generous chambers. O3s are tighter chambers. RCBS Precession Mic or the Hornady does the same job.
Both can be used to measure the fired case and push back the shoulder a few thousands for a bolt gun. For a semiauto
push back the shoulder to what a new round of ammo measures. OAL and sizing the brass to spec are two different
things. You should be able to chamber a sized piece of brass and remove it with little effort. If not the case shoulder
needs to be pushed back more. To long of a case might crimp the case to the bullet in the chamber resulting in excessive pressure.

I miss spoke. What I meant to ask was do Garand's have long throats? That little precision mic looks like a fun toy, but at this point it's not a necessity for me.
The chamber thing, yeah, got that down. For the Swede Mauser, bolt guns in general, I discovered I don't need to bump the shoulder back, for the second loading anyway. The bolt closes on a fired shell with the slightest resistance. Just enough to make me feel good about not working my brass much.
So I size to just before the shoulder contacts the die.

I understand if a person is "geeking" out on making match ammo there's a lot more to the process.