Wet tumble steel pins dirty issues- anyone else have this problem?

[9mm guy]

I posted about this some years ago, but here's more of the issue after years of further confirmation experience. I wet tumble clean all my brass using the Frankford Arsenal 7L Rotary Tumbler using the stainless steel tumbling media. For years, I was getting amazing results. I also took great satisfaction in how clean the brass turned out to be as part of the reloading process; surprisingly I actually enjoyed this cleaning portion of reloading. I use 2 scoops of the Guntap Shine Powder Detergent. I've been using 5lbs of the Guntap Stainless Steel media pins. I usually time the tumbling for about 2 hours.

However about a year ago, I noticed how dirty my stainless steel pins were. There were these dark, goop-like grease all over the pins after cleaning. The first photo shows these darkened pins. This resulted in myself having to clean the brass multiple times as opposed to just once. This is a recent development. The greasy black goop also easily smeared off on my hand. I pick up my brass from the Tri-County range, nothing different than before.

I tried cleaning the pins by tumbling them without any brass with water and either my regular detergent (Guntap Shine Powder Detergent), Lemi-Shine, Palmolive, Frankford Arsenal Brass Cleaning Solution or even Barkeeper's Friend. (All separately and without any brass) Some of these cleaning sessions took some of the gunk off the pins but very little.

I ended up buying a new 5lb bag of stainless steel pins. However as you can see in the second photo, they also also quickly turned dark with some of the greasy gunk on the pins after about a half a dozen cleaning sessions. Since they are still newer, you can see in the second photo that they are still more shiny than the pins from the first photo. I guess I have to constantly buy steel pins. That's not a huge deal since they cost about $25 per 5lbs. But I wondered if other reloaders here had similar experiences or if you all had any suggetions.

Thanks in advance for your answers.

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[Longwalkhome]

Maybe a citrus product will break down the sludge.

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[crossbow5]

I use the stainless steel pins and Dawn dishwashing liquid and a little bit of Lemi-shine. All my stainless steel pins are still nice and shiny. Nothing like yours. I also picked up a lot of 9mm brass at Tri-County.

 

[Local Loader]

Have you trys soaking them in gun cleaner? Odds are it's built up hardened carbon residue that normal cleaners can't remove. I find the hoppes spray foam works really well for this kind of thing.

 

[nammac]

Have you checked the rubber lining of your drum? Perhaps your chemical mixture has taken a toll on the lining. Worth checking, if you haven't already.

I'm a Dawn and Lemi-Shine user too and have had no issues…. I've also used car wash and Lemi-Shine without incident. Pins are still shined as new…

 

[DizzyJ]

Have you checked the rubber lining of your drum? Perhaps your chemical mixture has taken a toll on the lining. Worth checking, if you haven't already.

I'm a Dawn and Lemi-Shine user too and have had no issues…. I've also used car wash and Lemi-Shine without incident. Pins are still shined as new…

This was my thought as well.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Yea, something is weird. Maybe it's a wax?
Anyway, I'd tumble them in a towel with probably a cup of gasoline poured on it and see if that works.
If it doesn't, it probably is wax and alcohol will likely work.

 

[Member 34319]

Notes from my use over the time I used a stainless tumbler.

Dish soap works best. With or with out some form of citric acid. Citric acid can be had in many forms. Dish drying agents have it. Lemi-Shine is basically powdered citric acid. Then there are products for canning that are also powdered citric acid.

Clean using hot water. Rinse in hot water. Heat helps activate the sodium laural sulfate in the soap to remove particulates. The acid helps too.

Here's the kicker. DO NOT LET IT SIT AFTER ITS DONE.

That soap and acid will not only slowly eat away at the copper in the brass. It will also eat away at the liner in the drum.

Get that brass out asap after the allotted time agitating. Rinse EVERYTHING a few times with hot water. Then let dry.

Should alleviate all problems.

If I had to guess, you aren't rinsing everything all that well? Or letting things sit after it ran for longer than a few minutes?

 

[oremike]

Sounds like you need a de-greaser. FWIW I use Citric acid and Dawn dish soap. Dawn must have de-greaser properties, they advertise that they use it to clean birds caught in oil spills.

 

[RVTECH]

I use Dawn and lemon juice as my 'poison' and my pins are still bright and shiny after many years of use, However ditto on this part....

Here's the kicker. DO NOT LET IT SIT AFTER ITS DONE.

 

[Member 34319]

Dawn must have de-greaser properties,

Main ingredient. In most soaps.

Sodium laureth sulfate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[9mm guy]

Notes from my use over the time I used a stainless tumbler.

Dish soap works best. With or with out some form of citric acid. Citric acid can be had in many forms. Dish drying agents have it. Lemi-Shine is basically powdered citric acid. Then there are products for canning that are also powdered citric acid.

Clean using hot water. Rinse in hot water. Heat helps activate the sodium laural sulfate in the soap to remove particulates. The acid helps too.

Here's the kicker. DO NOT LET IT SIT AFTER ITS DONE.

That soap and acid will not only slowly eat away at the copper in the brass. It will also eat away at the liner in the drum.

Get that brass out asap after the allotted time agitating. Rinse EVERYTHING a few times with hot water. Then let dry.

Should alleviate all problems.

If I had to guess, you aren't rinsing everything all that well? Or letting things sit after it ran for longer than a few minutes?

Wow, awesome insights. Yes, you are correct, I am letting the brass and pins sit in the dirty water longer than a few minutes after tumbling is finished. When I first started out reloading, I heard tips from this forum and YouTube that as long as I don't leave it overnight, it's OK to leave the brass in the dirty water for a while after it has finished tumbling. Well, live and learn. I won't be doing that anymore.

Also in response to nammac, yes, the inner rubber lining of the drum is also coated with this greasy stuff. Great insight. Thank you both and to everyone else for your comments.

In terms of a solution, could I use dishwashing soap/Dawn along with citric acid/Lemi shine/lemon juice to clean the pins and the rubber lining of the drum? Hopefully I don't need to buy a new drum or pins. Otherwise, I'll also try soaking the pins in gun cleaning solution/Hoppes if this doesn't work.

Finally I have another question. I love the results I get with the Guntap detergent and so I would like to continue to use that. But to avoid this grease issue, can I add the Dawn and some form of citric acid or cleaner along with the Guntap detergent? Or should I do a separate cleaning of the pins with the Dawn/citric material? Thanks again everyone.

 

[DizzyJ]

I would tumble the pins when using Dawn dish soap. It would help clean both the pins and the drum IMO.

 

[RVTECH]

can I add the Dawn and some form of citric acid or cleaner along with the Guntap detergent?

Personally I'd drop the Guntap and just use Dawn and lemon juice.

I get brilliant, blinding brass when done but always empty, rinse & dry immediately.

 

[ageingstudent]

I would tumble the pins when using Dawn dish soap. It would help clean both the pins and the drum IMO.

You know it almost looks like the op has some kind of bullet Lube collecting on those pins. If lemishine and Dawn doesn't work I would try some rubbing alcohol. Sometimes alcohol will break up a gunk that other stuff won't touch. I've been using my pins for 10 years and they've never looked like that.

 

[thorborg]

What @RVTECH said and to add My "personally",
two scoops of anything seems over the top when a couple drops of household stuff works just fine for me.
If stuff is really dirty, sometimes its best to opener up after fifteen minutes, gentle flush the bulk of the black out with a hose, and add a couple more drops of soap and lemon for the balance of tumble time.

 

[BrandonQuixote]

BRASS JUICE CASE WASH

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I stopped using pins all together, theyre such a huge pain. Just hot water and a splash of brass juice gets em bright and shiny.

 

[Member 34319]

Wow, awesome insights. Yes, you are correct, I am letting the brass and pins sit in the dirty water longer than a few minutes after tumbling is finished. When I first started out reloading, I heard tips from this forum and YouTube that as long as I don't leave it overnight, it's OK to leave the brass in the dirty water for a while after it has finished tumbling. Well, live and learn. I won't be doing that anymore.

Also in response to nammac, yes, the inner rubber lining of the drum is also coated with this greasy stuff. Great insight. Thank you both and to everyone else for your comments.

In terms of a solution, could I use dishwashing soap/Dawn along with citric acid/Lemi shine/lemon juice to clean the pins and the rubber lining of the drum? Hopefully I don't need to buy a new drum or pins. Otherwise, I'll also try soaking the pins in gun cleaning solution/Hoppes if this doesn't work.

Finally I have another question. I love the results I get with the Guntap detergent and so I would like to continue to use that. But to avoid this grease issue, can I add the Dawn and some form of citric acid or cleaner along with the Guntap detergent? Or should I do a separate cleaning of the pins with the Dawn/citric material? Thanks again everyone.

I'd look into what is in the Guntap detergent if it was my decision. Could be some chemical additive they add that might be causing your issues in the first place.

Guns and gun stuff are not some form of magical unicorns. It's metal mostly. Only marketing tells you otherwise. That's why you'll get marketing telling you aluminum moving on steel needs "special" lubricant. Then you go and dump the cheapest oil in the car you own that you use exponentially more than your guns.

All Detergent is usually made from the same stuff unless you go natural or organic. Sodium Laurel Sulfate is likely in that "Gun" detergent. That or it is basically Dawn and they are selling you smoke and mirrors. There was a company selling canola oil as a specialized "gun oil" a couple years back. When s guy called them out on it, they actually sued the guy. Well the internet took care of that company. Sadly there are still some that swear by it!

Point being there are more consumer controls on broadly used items like Dawn vs "gun" stuff where they don't have to tell you what is in it. Even if it is the same thing.

Moral of this post, if you want to use it because you paid some ridiculous "gun marketing price" for what is essentially dish soap, I get it. Otherwise, just use dish soap and toss the marketing snake oil.

 

[ma96782]

LOL.....

I'm cheap.......
So, for my wet tumbling needs.....I bought the "Dawn look alike stuff" from Wally World.
Then one day, I walked into the "Dollar Store." Rrrrright.... it's hard to actually find $1 stuff anymore. But anyway.....I bought some their cheap dishwashing liquid. Yes, it works. A squirt, along with some Lemi Shine and a 3 hour spin and I'm happy with the results. The brass doesn't really need to glint in the sun. If it's clean then it's GTG. Also, I try not to leave it in that dirty water for a long period of time. Call it under 4 hours.

So then.....Nope. I haven't had your problem.

Aloha, Mark

PS.....Lemi Shine.

OMG.....WTF? I just looked (on EBay). The price on that stuff has certainly gone up since my last purchase at Wally World. I guess I'll also need to "stock up"?

 

[arrowshooter]

As mentioned above I believe that you are looking at rubber oxidation in your drum, and once it starts it won't stop. Maybe this is something that Franklin Arsenal will warranty, or at least cut you a deal on a new one . It also sounds like you need to revisit your rinsing out and drying process to make sure that you are getting all the chems out.

Find a way to clean your pins away from the tumbler. Test with gas, parts cleaner or alcohol to see which will cut it then let the soak "till the black is gone. Towel them off then toss'um in a vibratory tumbler with walnut and they should come out new.