Vietnam '67 From the Other Side

[HuckleberryFun]

Ran across this column written by an historian about how Vietnam Cong forces experienced American firepower in the months leading up to Tet. Interviews with surviving Cong, including one political officer who said "we exaggerated or made up atrocities by American soldiers to motivate our troops." How they were getting creamed but managed to stay intact. Part of a series on Vietnam in 1967.

http://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/17/opinion/as-the-earth-shook-they-stood-firm.html

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[Andy54Hawken]

Very good posting Huck.
I've read that the losses the NVA and VC incurred during the Tet '68 offense were huge.
Many NVA General officers have gone on record saying that if it wasn't for the anti - war protesters putting pressure on Washington , they ( the NVA ) were about to seek terms for a cease fire / peace treaty.
Andy

 

[Dungannon]

Another article in that series, by an Oregonian.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/07/...sion=column&rref=collection/column/vietnam-67

 

[HuckleberryFun]

A lot of lessons to be learned, or re-learned...

 

[DirectDrive]

As a kid watching it unfold on nightly TV..... it tore me up.
Had a few older friends that went and made it back.
They were never the same.

 

[Captain O]

Many weren't. in 1985, four NVA generals came forward and stated that if the US had held out for another six months, they would have surrendered unconditionally.

Hindsight is, indeed, 20/20.

 

[Jamie6.5]

If only Walter Cronkite had kept his mouth shut, and/or hadn't been a sympathizer of the socialist/communists.
Little known, is Cronkite was also one of the earliest celebrity NWO proponents.

The Terrible Truth About Walter Cronkite

 

[Captain O]

If only Walter Cronkite had kept his mouth shut, and/or hadn't been a sympathizer of the socialist/communists.
Little known, is Cronkite was also one of the earliest celebrity NWO proponents.

The Terrible Truth About Walter Cronkite

I knew about this long ago. Walter Cronkite was a Communist sympathizer and a jerkwad.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I lost a few friends there! I always take a quiet time on Veterans and Memorial Days to carefully remember each of them. There is a good history book called "The Tunnels of Cu Chi" IIRC it was from both points of view, the VC and Tropic Lightning. I remember that I found it fascinating!
Couldn't help but note that Mrs Mo was both a looker and an effective combat officer. That's my kind of woman!

 

[Swedish K]

Still recall my neighbor coming back from over there and he was never the same by a long shot - jumpy to say the least. Also recall one of the neighbors a block or two away overdosed after his older brother came home with some pure china white - guess the tar heroin he had been doing was stomped on enough that his usual dose was an OD.

I also know a guy who was stationed at Cheyenne Mountain doing crypto the last year or two of the war. He told me about a farmer in Nebraska accidentally cutting the secure line that ran from Cheyenne Mtn to the Pentagon and that during the 3 or 4 days it took them to repair it none of the support mission requests were handled or approved leaving several of our guys hosed.
Sad thing that they were required to get approval from someone at a desk in DC to help bail our guys out of a bad situation. You would think they would have turned over those approvals to commanders in theater, at least while the comms were not secure.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Lost two Cousins and three older guys I grew up with! Next door neighbors son went off the deck of a carrier in his F-4 and never came back, changed the Mother for ever! She was a lost sole after her son went missing, still haven't found the plane or any bodies! I remember My Dad was home off ship when the Navy car rolled up to the drive way, My Mom actually screamed, and Dad told us all to go in the house and stay silent as a grave while he and mom went next door to offer condolences and help! I will never forget seeing that God forsaken NAVY car show up to the house, and I will never forget that the poor guy never got a funeral or any sort of closure for the family! My old D.I. was a former Army Vet from the Vietnam war, and he is pretty messed up, but still one heck of a guy, One I am proud to call friend!

 

[nammac]

A lot of lessons to be learned, or re-learned...

Lessons that should never be forgotten...

 

[HuckleberryFun]

I don't remember the war itself. My first clear childhood memory of any world event was the fall of Saigon in 1975.
The last choppers taking off, or being pushed into the sea.
I remember feeling bad for all those scared people running for their lives down roads to try to find safety somewhere. I was too young then to understand why all that was happening.
The consequences of defeat.

 

[maddog]

Lessons that should never be forgotten...

And names that foul my spirit are LBJ, McNamara, Kissinger, and Nixon. I read things about the NVA, and the VC nearly ready to surrender, but I honestly do not think "Sir Charles" (Charlie, Chuck, gook, dink) would ever surrender. I wouldn't under his circumstances, would you, really?

RIP, Skip, I love you man.

 

[etrain16]

My father served in Vietnam, in fact, he was there when I was born. He has mixed feelings about the whole thing and still has stuff he won't talk about, probably never will. He says he both loved and hated his time in the service - wouldn't have traded it for anything, but also would like to have not gone. I imagine a lot of those folks feel the same way.

As for the article, it does make you wonder how much propaganda takes place on both sides. How much of the real story are we getting? How much are our service people getting? And how many people had to die, to keep a false story intact? I get that it's part of war, but damn, what a crappy part.

 

[HuckleberryFun]

I lost a few friends there! I always take a quiet time on Veterans and Memorial Days to carefully remember each of them. There is a good history book called "The Tunnels of Cu Chi" IIRC it was from both points of view, the VC and Tropic Lightning. I remember that I found it fascinating!
Couldn't help but note that Mrs Mo was both a looker and an effective combat officer. That's my kind of woman!

I wouldn't presume to speak for someone that served in Vietnam. I wasn't there. But I've taken note how many who were there talk about the enemy they faced: sort of a (grudging?) admiration for those "tough little SOBs".
Almost like: "you, sir, are a worthy enemy...but I'm still going to kill you". Something like that.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

VietNam's history has been one of fighting and resisting for thousands of years.
This can get to be ingrained in a culture and lead to a difficult outlook for outsiders to understand.

As I noted above some generals were ready to talk of a cease fire at the least after Tet '68.
Would that have led to a surrender? I do not know.

Since our first involvement in VietNam in 1845 , when the USS Constitution pulled into Da Nang and Marines assisted the French for four days , I have to wonder if we ever really understood the people we helped , assisted or fought over there?

A excellent read on VietNam comes from:
DA Pam NO. 550-55
Area Handbook for South VietNam. Published April 1967

For a US government published book it is filled with good , clear information.
History ( both "current" and ancient ) , culture , languages , world view politics etc ...
Are all given chapters.
And interesting for the time , it showcases both what was working in VietNam and the things that we needed to improve on.

For those of you who served over there or those that served during that difficult time , you have my respect.
For those who have never returned from that war in one way or another , may you finally have the peace you deserve.
Andy

 

[DirectDrive]

An odd thing is I've talked to people that have "traveled" to Viet Nam in recent years.
They say that "they love Americans". But they're dealing with a generation that didn't fight in the war, I think.
I put "traveled" in quotes because it will always seem a weird concept to vacation in Viet Nam.

Here's a worthy read by Dr. Bob Cook, combat surgeon and former Portland Trailblazers team doctor.
This is his Viet Nam story.

Sadly, Dr. Cook drowned last summer in a SW Oregon lake.
He was 78.

 

[Captain O]

I don't remember the war itself. My first clear childhood memory of any world event was the fall of Saigon in 1975.
The last choppers taking off, or being pushed into the sea.
I remember feeling bad for all those scared people running for their lives down roads to try to find safety somewhere. I was too young then to understand why all that was happening.
The consequences of defeat.

What you may not remember is that Nixon promised the Republic of South Vietnam that we would reimburse them "bullet for bullet, tank for tank". The Democrat-controlled Congress reneged on this promise. This is what ultimately led to the fall of the South Vietnamese Government. Congress was ultimately responsible for the fall of Saigon/South Vietnam.

The buck stopped there.

 

[nammac]

What you may not remember is that Nixon promised the Republic of South Vietnam that we would reimburse them "bullet for bullet, tank for tank". The Democrat-controlled Congress reneged on this promise. This is what ultimately led to the fall of the South Vietnamese Government. Congress was ultimately responsible for the fall of Saigon/South Vietnam.

The buck stopped there.

What? The Democratic Congress was responsible for the defeat of the South Vietnamese??? Say it isn't so...

Aren't they supposed to be the "hope & change" party? Yet it has been Republicians through history who bring hope and change, abolishing slavery, passing civil rights...

Meh....