Silver Supporter
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Here's what I wrote about this whole thing elsewhere. I'll repost it here since it seems relevant to this discussion:
"OK, be patient and you'll eventually see where I'm going with this. I got Joe's message and had to give it some thought before I decided what he was really talking about. I'm a strange bird. I'm an anti-authoritarian who holds strong views from both ends of the political spectrum. I don't even know what to call myself.
I was 18 in 1965. I saw our government at its worst. Remember Kent State? People were dying for free speech and in opposition to a bad war. I was taught in school to honor our constitution and to root for the underdog. That was reinforced in college and law school. In law school I read case after case where the government was constantly trying to exert power that it didn't legally have. I gained an appreciation for legal due process and constitutional protections. I believe in the Bill of Rights, as written, all of it, absolutely. I also believe in fairness in our social policies. People willing to work should be able to get jobs, and at the same time we have an obligation to help people who truly can't provide for themselves.
I think what Joe is getting at, in part, is the very prevalent attitude I see here sometimes that anyone who is not with the very radical right wing on every aspect of every issue is not welcome here. Liberal gun owners are not welcome. People who love guns, but don't believe the stuff posted on survivalist websites, on militia websites, and other extremist websites are insulted, called libtards, and automatically discredited. That polarization drives away people who could contribute to our knowledge base, help combat anti-gun legislation, and generally provide balance to our discourse. If that kind of selective and unwarranted hostility is allowed to continue then NWFA becomes just another right wing whacko site for people with tinfoil hats.
See, it turns out that there are authoritarians on both ends of the political spectrum. The "lifer" redneck Republican drill sergeants from the 1960's were authoritarians, just as the lock-step, fascist, left wing Progressive Democrat activists are now. Their common desire was/is to destroy anyone or anything that allows anti-authoritarianism, better known as personal freedoms. It doesn't matter which end of the political spectrum it comes from. It's destructive, corrosive, and abhorrent. Now don't get me wrong. We do need rules to prevent people from abusing others. But we don't need rules to protect people from themselves. That's not what we should be about. There are certain rights and freedoms that we don't have any right to restrict.
When I disagree with someone on a given subject it doesn't mean they are sub-human or evil. It means that we see things differently. If I think they might have some reasonable and reasoned thoughts to offer on their position then I want to have a discussion with them about that. Maybe I'll educate them, or maybe I'll get educated. When it appears that there's no valid reasoning involved in their position, or that they really don't have anything intelligent to say I use the ignore button, if there's one available.
I think what Joe is asking for is an end to the polarization, and a concentration on what brings all of us here in the first place, a love of firearms. That should come first, and any differences should be explored and discussed with that fact in mind. We love guns. We think they are fun, as well as being tools for hunting, target shooting, and self-defense. If that's not why you're here then maybe you shouldn't be here.
So maybe I didn't get it right, or maybe I only got a part of it. That's how I see it anyway. What I would ask of everyone is to step back and do a reality check every once in a while. Do we really believe some of those wild theories posted out there on extremist websites. Do we really go along with the unreasoning hatred expressed nearly everywhere these days towards people who aren't "like us". Are we going for the simple, "feel good" answers, rather than the right answers? Ask yourself, where's the common ground? We need to ask ourselves what can we agree on, rather than what our differences are.
Anger? Yeah, it has it's place, but let's not direct it at each other. Let's save it for those who mindlessly oppose firearms and those who own them."
"OK, be patient and you'll eventually see where I'm going with this. I got Joe's message and had to give it some thought before I decided what he was really talking about. I'm a strange bird. I'm an anti-authoritarian who holds strong views from both ends of the political spectrum. I don't even know what to call myself.
I was 18 in 1965. I saw our government at its worst. Remember Kent State? People were dying for free speech and in opposition to a bad war. I was taught in school to honor our constitution and to root for the underdog. That was reinforced in college and law school. In law school I read case after case where the government was constantly trying to exert power that it didn't legally have. I gained an appreciation for legal due process and constitutional protections. I believe in the Bill of Rights, as written, all of it, absolutely. I also believe in fairness in our social policies. People willing to work should be able to get jobs, and at the same time we have an obligation to help people who truly can't provide for themselves.
I think what Joe is getting at, in part, is the very prevalent attitude I see here sometimes that anyone who is not with the very radical right wing on every aspect of every issue is not welcome here. Liberal gun owners are not welcome. People who love guns, but don't believe the stuff posted on survivalist websites, on militia websites, and other extremist websites are insulted, called libtards, and automatically discredited. That polarization drives away people who could contribute to our knowledge base, help combat anti-gun legislation, and generally provide balance to our discourse. If that kind of selective and unwarranted hostility is allowed to continue then NWFA becomes just another right wing whacko site for people with tinfoil hats.
See, it turns out that there are authoritarians on both ends of the political spectrum. The "lifer" redneck Republican drill sergeants from the 1960's were authoritarians, just as the lock-step, fascist, left wing Progressive Democrat activists are now. Their common desire was/is to destroy anyone or anything that allows anti-authoritarianism, better known as personal freedoms. It doesn't matter which end of the political spectrum it comes from. It's destructive, corrosive, and abhorrent. Now don't get me wrong. We do need rules to prevent people from abusing others. But we don't need rules to protect people from themselves. That's not what we should be about. There are certain rights and freedoms that we don't have any right to restrict.
When I disagree with someone on a given subject it doesn't mean they are sub-human or evil. It means that we see things differently. If I think they might have some reasonable and reasoned thoughts to offer on their position then I want to have a discussion with them about that. Maybe I'll educate them, or maybe I'll get educated. When it appears that there's no valid reasoning involved in their position, or that they really don't have anything intelligent to say I use the ignore button, if there's one available.
I think what Joe is asking for is an end to the polarization, and a concentration on what brings all of us here in the first place, a love of firearms. That should come first, and any differences should be explored and discussed with that fact in mind. We love guns. We think they are fun, as well as being tools for hunting, target shooting, and self-defense. If that's not why you're here then maybe you shouldn't be here.
So maybe I didn't get it right, or maybe I only got a part of it. That's how I see it anyway. What I would ask of everyone is to step back and do a reality check every once in a while. Do we really believe some of those wild theories posted out there on extremist websites. Do we really go along with the unreasoning hatred expressed nearly everywhere these days towards people who aren't "like us". Are we going for the simple, "feel good" answers, rather than the right answers? Ask yourself, where's the common ground? We need to ask ourselves what can we agree on, rather than what our differences are.
Anger? Yeah, it has it's place, but let's not direct it at each other. Let's save it for those who mindlessly oppose firearms and those who own them."