Thank you for emphasizing safety training.

[ZA_Survivalist]

@yakyak86 I mean this with sincerity to maintain being excellent to you, so please don't misjudge my tone.. These questions will help everyone get to know you better. Since we're all responsible gun owners here and many of us share info related to the hobby, Im curious:

(Roughly) how many and what exact types of firearms do you own? Perhaps not the total number, but a rough estimate? What action types do you own or prefer?
Gun owners and their particular firearm types are actually quite diverse. You giving insight to your preferred firearms may help us understand your particular interests.
A fellow hip gun enthusiast would know we're not all the same as it comes to a collective of gun owners. Many of us have very particular firearm interests.

How long have you owned firearms or been into the hobby? What is your age demographic?
What are YOUR exact proposals? Lets hear them. Your ideas may aid in better insight to your take on all of this.
It would be nice/interesting to see your take on the subject rather than sitting back and combing through strangers solutions on the forum, seeings how you're a fellow gun owner and all lets see your exact proposals. This is how proper dialog can get started.. maybe some great ideas/approaches can be hashed out from all this?

Lastly, of all the days and times to join this forum, why today at 9am?

 

[Mikej]

No, I lied! I've got one more thing to make a point of. You want more laws on firearms. "Common Sense" gun laws you would call them. BUT, the people wanting these laws have no incite what so ever as to what gun ownership is. You people have no clue to anything gun related. You people have no knowledge of how firearms operate. To allow you, and your ilk, to come up with gun laws, so called "Common Sense" gun laws, would be akin to putting a gas pump jockey as the head of the Neo-Natal Unit of a huge hospital.

IF you ever get any knowledge of the firearms community and general knowledge of fire arms. Come on back. There's surely lots more to learn.

 

[yakyak86]

@yakyak86 I mean this with sincerity to maintain being excellent to you, so please don't misjudge my tone.. These questions will help everyone get to know you better. Since we're all responsible gun owners here and many of us share info related to the hobby, Im curious:

(Roughly) how many and what exact types of firearms do you own? Perhaps not the total number, but a rough estimate? What action types do you own or prefer?
Gun owners and their particular firearm types are actually quite diverse. You giving insight to your preferred firearms may help us understand your particular interests.
A fellow hip gun enthusiast would know we're not all the same as it comes to a collective of gun owners. Many of us have very particular firearm interests.

How long have you owned firearms or been into the hobby? What is your age demographic?
What are YOUR exact proposals? Lets hear them. Your ideas may aid in better insight to your take on all of this.
It would be nice/interesting to see your take on the subject rather than sitting back and combing through strangers solutions on the forum, seeings how you're a fellow gun owner and all lets see your exact proposals. This is how proper dialog can get started.. maybe some great ideas/approaches can be hashed out from all this?

Lastly, of all the days and times to join this forum, why today at 9am?

I don't own a gun but I have operated one for sport. I'm afraid this might not be enough for you to speak with me. I understand, Be well.

 

[arrowshooter]

Welcome YakYak86. Rough start for the new guy. You have chosen a very controversial topic to open with, especially on the heals of what just happened to those poor kids and their families. Then there is the totally inappropriate "Beto" response.

This is one of Pandora's Box's that has not had a solution in all the years that they (Feds) have tried. As a community there is nothing that we can do except back the ideas that pop up in DC. Unfortunately every one of these ideas effect all gun owners which is not acceptable. Even the mandatory reporting thing they started was an absolute flop due to incompetent reporting.

I suggest you google your question.

I think it's hard to judge when a person is mentally ill. I believe responsible gun ownership means you are safe with a gun and you stand up for the safety of others.

You cannot associate these as one has nothing to do with the other, but you are correct with each statement separately.

 

[Mikej]

I don't own a gun but I have operated one for sport. I'm afraid this might not be enough for you to speak with me. I understand, Be well.

Be sure and tell your democrat representatives that they're on the wrong track with the laws affecting only law abiding gun owners. And press them to actually punish those who use gun criminally. And seriously consider voting red, for a change, because this country/state is circling the drain thanks to the current leadership.

 

[RVTECH]

I don't own a gun but I have operated one for sport. I'm afraid this might not be enough for you to speak with me.

I think you have this backwards - the fact you are not a gun owner isn't enough for YOU to speak with us.

 

[Mikej]

I think you have this backwards - the fact you are not a gun owner isn't enough for YOU to speak with us.

Well not necessarily. If one needed info on various aspects of different firearms and loads for such. Hunting and the firearms used. Target shooting, we're your huckleberries!

 

[Mikej]

We're just not really the ones to ask about new restrictive gun legislation because we're supposed to have elected officials with a brain to do that shizz.

 

[nwslopoke]

I appreciate the emphasis on safety training. Can someone tell me the ways we are keeping guns out of the hands of mentally ill people?

Being honest with society.

"Frank, you're ******* weird. You're banned from guns and vans.

Letting, even mentally ill people know we see what you are doing and there are consequences, does wonders.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

I don't own a gun but I have operated one for sport. I'm afraid this might not be enough for you to speak with me. I understand, Be well.

Admittedly, I was aggressive in my initial post on this thread. We grt a LOT of people coming on here and telling us how it should be.. but my second post was with no ill-intentions. I/we want to get to know you.

Knowing you do not own any firearms gives some insight. Perhaps you are not familiar with local or federal laws? This is the failing point of many anti gun individuals arguements. They dont realize we have many laws on the books.


However, Of course Ill speak with you. You have not directly insulted me, and you've been civil to me so far and kept your composure..
(unless there are new posts Ive missed)

Talking to "all walks of life" allows all sides to see where the kther is coming from if it is done so in a civil and productive way. I would make note that political buzzwords and terms do stand out and tend to "out" certain individuals and their understanding of firearms as it related to a subject . Id hold off on using them.. most of those buzzwords/terms stem from a place of ignorance via politicians and the media that parrot said terms. Most are incorrect:
Example: "High capacity", "Assault rifle", "common sense"," gun show loophole".. these are touted by politicians that make LAW and yet they have no actual understanding of the topic at hand.. and that should worry you as it does us.. knee-jerk reactionary law preying upon emotions is a bad way to make law.

In previous posts I have stated that though we (anti gun people) may disagree politically, dialog between opposing viewpoints matters to an extent. Sometimes one side can learn or the other side can express something ao the other can understand the misconceptions or concern.

I just ask that in the end, you also see where many here are coming from.
As long as you remain civil and can articulate your side, then I dont see why we cannot have a discussion.

What particular measures do you think would be effective?

 

[Hueco]

And if the answer is no?

"Mentally ill" has a very narrow definition where firearms are concerned. As noted in the 4473, one must have been adjudicated mentally ill or committed to a mental health institution.

Now, even where that is concerned, the sharing of that information with the federal NICS system is a voluntary act for each state.

Assume you have someone who was committed attempt to buy a gun, and their institution DID share the data with NICS. Let's also assume they lie on the form stating that NO, they have not been adjudicated mentally ill. The gun store's NICS check would come back as a DENY and you would not be sold the gun. Additionally, it will be noted that you lied on a federal form, which carries a penalty up to 10 years in jail and a $250,000 fine.

However, RARELY does the ATF ever go after folks that lie on their 4473. You'd think they'd be easy pickings for field agents to earn their keep, but alas.

Now, assume instead that the mental institution DID NOT share such information with NICS and the person LIED. In that case, their check would come back as a PASS, all other factors assumed good to go.

Finally, assume that the institution did not share such information and the person TOLD THE TRUTH. Their NICS check would get denied...what if they lie on the next one? Of that, I have no knowledge.

But, even off of what I do know, you can see that there is a MASSIVE GAPING HOLE where NICS is concerned and that is - sharing of information is largely voluntary. Not just for mental health by the way...there was a case where (I believe) an Air Force veteran had been guilty of whatever the military's equivalent of domestic abuse is - a sentence that would stop one from being able to purchase a gun...the USAF never shared that information with the FBI and the guy did end up buying a gun and murdering his spouse with it.

You should be wondering why, in the age of digital information, these problems exist? To me, this is the low hanging fruit of the gun control conversation and it never gets brought up in favor of grander schemes. Pity.

Your next question should be: what of mentally ill people who HAVEN'T been committed? What about the clinically depressed guy who tells his therapist he's harboring suicidal ideations and murder ideations?

Here is where it gets tricky...because this sort of information is protected under HIPAA and other medical privacy laws. Such information is not shared with NICS and would not stop someone from buying a gun. Many states are enacting what are termed "Red Flag Laws" with the hopes that they could be used to remove firearms from such an individual's possession...but I am not aware of any such Red Flag Law that also communicates data to NICS, stopping a future acquisition.

Blanket bans on certain mental health issues are likely not going to get a lot of support in the States, where every other person is or has been on some sort of antidepressant.

So, there you have it, you're all caught up on mental health and guns in the current environment. As someone who does not own a gun, I'm more curious what YOU think of the current state of affairs regarding mental health and how you think this topic should be addressed?

 

[s1xty7]

Welcome to the forum! No, I don't think firearm ownership is a requirement to join. The fact that you're looking for input from those with experience with firearms seems like an admirable quest.

As to what WE can do, understanding that we can't control other people's actions, but we can control our own actions and contribute on an individual level. For instance, I'm not going to take someone shooting, sell someone a gun, or even show them how to shoot if I am personally unsure of their mental state, but I am not a mental health expert so it comes down to the my reading of that individual's personality. But I can help decrease other unfortunate losses of life due to firearms by teaching proper handling and safety to my children and anyone who is interested. As a society, we can reduce those numbers further by education early and often, beginning in elementary school and continuing through high school (although learning should be a life long pursuit).

At some point, unless you're willing to forgo all notions of freedom, you have to wait for someone to actually act before you can judge them and limit their individual freedoms and rights. Even having said that, mental health is a broad and winding road. Similar to having a broken bone that heals physically, just because someone has a mental health issue today does not mean they won't eventually "heal" as well. And being fine today does not mean a broken bone or mental health episode won't happen in the future. Unless we all become mind readers or are willing to sacrifice all individual freedoms/rights, I don't know how we prevent evil from occurring.

 

[titsonritz]

The bottom line is you will never keep guns or anything else of the the hands of evil scumbags, the ONLY option is to confront them and kill them when the rear their ugly heads. Wake the f' up and start hardening these soft zones, as the say goes, "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm."




Guns aren't the problem, not dealing appropriately with scum of the earth is the problem.

 

[Mikej]

Some of you guys make me looked dammed near illiterate. But I know good writing when I see it.
We'll hope @yakyak86 will come back and want to learn something. But from past people that registered and started such threads, I think the chances a rather slim.
The power of mainstream media is very strong.
I'm afraid our new member has left the building. Last seen "Managing Account Details".

 

[titsonritz]

Evil targeting children is nothing new and the worse school massacre (in term of injured and killed) has not been topped for nearly a century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

 

[American123]

The initial question reeks of troll who supports infringements.

 

[RVTECH]

The initial question reeks of troll who supports infringements.

I agree, however it sounds like his lack of experience with guns and maybe being of a younger age has him confused about the issues and he may have been influenced by a lot of the left & anti BS.

 

[Member 53328]

Mental illness is celebrated in America. Victimhood is celebrated in America. Quit making it cool and common. Address the issues. Be a parent and not a friend. I don't buy into the theory of "I had no idea he had guns" or "he's always been weird and isolated, killing animals etc. but I never thought he/she would do this…."

The mentally ill live under someone's roof. Someone knows. Someone turns a blind eye. Own your sh!t. Own your household. Own your life and your families security. It's your job.

Quit relying on others to fix your problems.

 

[American123]

Anytime someone says "the government should…" related to a social problem.

No, just stop. I don't need the government running my life just because there are some people who can't run their own.

 

[titsonritz]

Anytime someone says "the government should…" related to a social problem.

No, just stop. I don't need the government running my life just because there are some people who can't run their own.

Here's your exception.

The government should butt out of most things it butts into.