Reloading .357 Magnum 158gr XTP H110 (Richard Lee Second Edition)

[iron_road]

So I have been reloading for sometime now, still new to it. I have a Lee single stage press and RCBS carbide dies. I recently made a batch of reloads and this being my 3rd or so try I am still not getting nearly close the advertised velocity of 1591 feet per second for my 16.7 grains of H110 powder. Is there anything I could be doing wrong? Maybe case length is too long or cylinder gap is causing a high velocity drop? My current five shot average velocity is 1158.4 feet per second right now. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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[Certaindeaf]

That seems to be a max load and the velocity you're getting seems reasonable for a 6" vented barrel according to other sources..

Reloading Data Center – Hodgdon Reloading Data Center

hodgdonreloading.com

Load Data Resources

List of load data from major manufacturers Hodgdon http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/ Nosler https://load-data.nosler.com/ Speer https://reloading-data.speer-ammo.com/reloading/ Alliant Powder https://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx?page=/reloaders/index.aspx& Barnes Bullets...

www.northwestfirearms.com

 

[Carguy]

A lot of things affect the bullet velocity, other than powder choice and weight. The primer used, the barrel length in the test, the air temperature, amount of crimp on the bullet, case brand, etc. I've seen small velocity differences between standard and magnum primers and when testing at different times of the year. Some brass is thicker walled than others and has less interior volume, which increases pressure. I look at published velocities the same as auto horsepower or mileage ratings. The best possible under ideal conditions.

 

[oremike]

There is no industry standard for harvesting the load data, Lee might be using a 16" barrel in a locked breach test fixture. He doesn't say. The Hornady book lists their 357 Mag test fixture as a more realistic 8" barreled Colt Python. They show a max load of 16.0 grains with the 158gr XTP bullet getting 1250 FPS in their tests. Kind of the generally excepted rule is 50 fps loss per inch of barrel so if you are getting 100 fps less that Hornady out of a 6" barrel vs their 8" one I would say that is reasonable.

 

[ron]

So I have been reloading for sometime now, still new to it. I have a Lee single stage press and RCBS carbide dies. I recently made a batch of reloads and this being my 3rd or so try I am still not getting nearly close the advertised velocity of 1591 feet per second for my 16.7 grains of H110 powder. Is there anything I could be doing wrong? Maybe case length is too long or cylinder gap is causing a high velocity drop? My current five shot average velocity is 1158.4 feet per second right now. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I am not a fan of Max loads. I like the most accurate load. I have used 15 to 15.5 grains of H110
behind the 158 JHP Hornady with good results. Hot loads over work your brass and the revolver. The
real test is how the spent cases extract? Sticky hard to extract equals too hot of a load. The 357/38
is the first cartridge I started reloading in 1978.

 

[JRuby]

So I have been reloading for sometime now, still new to it. I have a Lee single stage press and RCBS carbide dies. I recently made a batch of reloads and this being my 3rd or so try I am still not getting nearly close the advertised velocity of 1591 feet per second for my 16.7 grains of H110 powder. Is there anything I could be doing wrong? Maybe case length is too long or cylinder gap is causing a high velocity drop? My current five shot average velocity is 1158.4 feet per second right now. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Are you loading for a rifle or a revolver - a revolver shows a max speed of about 1250 fps and 15.6 grains of H110. For a rifle the same book shows a max charge of 15.5 grains of H110. This came out Horndays volume 1 of the sixth edition. To me the diference is the barrel length, So are you loading for a revovler or a rifle?

 

[ron]

Delete

 

[Caveman Jim]

I too go for comfort/accuracy over velocity as most of my testing reveals minute of 9" steel target.

 

[iron_road]

I am not a fan of Max loads. I like the most accurate load. I have used 15 to 15.5 grains of H110
behind the 158 JHP Hornady with good results. Hot loads over work your brass and the revolver. The
real test is how the spent cases extract? Sticky hard to extract equals too hot of a load. The 357/38
is the first cartridge I started reloading in 1978.

They eject quite smoothly with little to no resistance out of my 686+ provided the cylinder has been cleaned since the last range day.

 

[iron_road]

Are you loading for a rifle or a revolver - a revolver shows a max speed of about 1250 fps and 15.6 grains of H110. For a rifle the same book shows a max charge of 15.5 grains of H110. This came out Horndays volume 1 of the sixth edition. To me the diference is the barrel length, So are you loading for a revovler or a rifle?

I am reloading for a 4.25 inch S&W 686 Plus and according to my book it does not differentiate handgun loads from rifle loads there is just the load data for 357 Magnum. Unfortunately I don't know what test revolver they used in the making of the book.

 

[2ndtimer]

So I have been reloading for sometime now, still new to it. I have a Lee single stage press and RCBS carbide dies. I recently made a batch of reloads and this being my 3rd or so try I am still not getting nearly close the advertised velocity of 1591 feet per second for my 16.7 grains of H110 powder. Is there anything I could be doing wrong? Maybe case length is too long or cylinder gap is causing a high velocity drop? My current five shot average velocity is 1158.4 feet per second right now. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

And you will NOT get anywhere close to the Hodgdon published velocity for that load, unless you are loading it in a Thompson Contender single shot with its 10 inch barrel. (Note Hodgdon measured their velocity in a 10" barrel). What are you loading it in? If it is a 4" barrel revolver, your velocity sounds about right. I get close to 1300 FPS out of a 6" Ruger GP-100 with 16.0 gr of W-296/H-110 with magnum primers and a very firm roll crimp. There are other factors involved such as chamber dimensions in your cylinder, bore dimensions as well as barrel/cylinder gap. For what it is worth, you might squeeze another 50 fps out of your revolver by using Alliant 300-MP, if maximum velocity is your goal.

 

[iron_road]

And you will NOT get anywhere close to the Hodgdon published velocity for that load, unless you are loading it in a Thompson Contender single shot with its 10 inch barrel. (Note Hodgdon measured their velocity in a 10" barrel). What are you loading it in? If it is a 4" barrel revolver, your velocity sounds about right. I get close to 1300 FPS out of a 6" Ruger GP-100 with 16.0 gr of W-296/H-110 with magnum primers and a very firm roll crimp. There are other factors involved such as chamber dimensions in your cylinder, bore dimensions as well as barrel/cylinder gap. For what it is worth, you might squeeze another 50 fps out of your revolver by using Alliant 300-MP, if maximum velocity is your goal.

I see. Because what I am trying to do is replicate my favorite load from Minuteman Ammo out of Vancouver WA in Sporting Systems place. And for their 158gr load they advertised 1,300fps out of a 4 inch GP100 and I got a hold of some and ran it through a chronograph, and it's every bit as fast as they advertised. I would especially love to get their data for their 125gr load. Reason being it's so popular it is frequently out of stock.

 

[oremike]

I see. Because what I am trying to do is replicate my favorite load from Minuteman Ammo out of Vancouver WA in Sporting Systems place. And for their 158gr load they advertised 1,300fps out of a 4 inch GP100 and I got a hold of some and ran it through a chronograph, and it's every bit as fast as they advertised. I would especially love to get their data for their 125gr load. Reason being it's so popular it is frequently out of stock.

So the question is "hows your load shoot"? A fast miss is still a miss. If your load is minute of shirt button at say 25 Yds that IMHO is much better than minute of school bus going warp speed.

 

[iron_road]

So the question is "hows your load shoot"? A fast miss is still a miss. If your load is minute of shirt button at say 25 Yds that IMHO is much better than minute of school bus going warp speed.

It shoots fairly accurate for a 4 inch barrel out of a S&W 686 Plus. Talking 1-2 MOA at 15ish yards, double action, free handed. Thing is I want more velocity for more energy transfer, because ideally with this revolver of mine, it is a close in weapon system for dispatching a not yet dead critter and personal protection. Not a hunting pistol while it most certainly a capable and a capable round. It's not the primary purpose of why I bought this gun.

 

[JRuby]

Personally, if a warm loaded 357 isnt cutting it, it's time to get a bigger gun. Trying to push a cartridge to its max when you include the cost of body parts seems awful exspensive to me. I am happy with 1250fps with a 158g bullet.

 

[iron_road]

Personally, if a warm loaded 357 isnt cutting it, it's time to get a bigger gun. Trying to push a cartridge to its max when you include the cost of body parts seems awful exspensive to me. I am happy with 1250fps with a 158g bullet.

Well my issue isn't that I doubt the load won't do me justice. I'm more or less a person much like my uncle who wants maximum performance out of their gun. Essentially I want all the juice out of the orange with a hint of pulp much like a match shooter would for his gun.

I do have a .44Mag and it does really well with standard Winchester white box 240gr JSP. But here in the PNW the only real danger aside from other hunters is black bear, cougar and by far the most likely a charging bull elk you spooked. And I will concede 44Mag is by far more suited for elk at close range out of a revolver than 357 magnum is, even in a lever action.

That being said my 686 has a slight advantage over my model 69 by being slightly heavier with the under lug, extra two rounds compared to five. And additionally hot 357 is not nearly as hard to shoot compared to mild 44 magnum.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Well my issue isn't that I doubt the load won't do me justice. I'm more or less a person much like my uncle who wants maximum performance out of their gun. Essentially I want all the juice out of the orange with a hint of pulp much like a match shooter would for his gun.

I do have a .44Mag and it does really well with standard Winchester white box 240gr JSP. But here in the PNW the only real danger aside from other hunters is black bear, cougar and by far the most likely a charging bull elk you spooked. And I will concede 44Mag is by far more suited for elk at close range out of a revolver than 357 magnum is, even in a lever action.

That being said my 686 has a slight advantage over my model 69 by being slightly heavier with the under lug, extra two rounds compared to five. And additionally hot 357 is not nearly as hard to shoot compared to mild 44 magnum.

So you chronographed some hot reloads once upon a time and are currently loading to max and are unhappy about it because uncles and oranges?

 

[JRuby]

Well my issue isn't that I doubt the load won't do me justice. I'm more or less a person much like my uncle who wants maximum performance out of their gun. Essentially I want all the juice out of the orange with a hint of pulp much like a match shooter would for his gun.

I do have a .44Mag and it does really well with standard Winchester white box 240gr JSP. But here in the PNW the only real danger aside from other hunters is black bear, cougar and by far the most likely a charging bull elk you spooked. And I will concede 44Mag is by far more suited for elk at close range out of a revolver than 357 magnum is, even in a lever action.

That being said my 686 has a slight advantage over my model 69 by being slightly heavier with the under lug, extra two rounds compared to five. And additionally hot 357 is not nearly as hard to shoot compared to mild 44 magnum.

Most match shooters I know are not pushing thier loads to the max. They typically want repeatability and accuracy - I have never heard one say that thier pistol or revolver was red lined. A lot of good guns have been destroyed by pushing them too hard. A lot of people have got hurt being dumb

 

[iron_road]

So you chronographed some hot reloads once upon a time and are currently loading to max and are unhappy about it because uncles and oranges?

I mean when you put it like that, it does sound pretty dumb. To me it just feels like the velocity my reloads could be better when there are commercial loads that are spitting out carbine like velocities but they're coming out of a pistol. While the accuracy is lacking, I like to imagine both are obtainable.

Essentially what I am trying to say is my 357 magnum reloads don't feel like the typical 357 magnum in terms of felt recoil. Sure just because it's not kicking hard doesn't mean it's not hitting hard and ideally you want to mitigate recoil. However when PMC Bronze and is getting better velocity and thus better foot pounds of energy. It really confuses you as a reloader.

Perhaps it's a different powder, different primer, or just the fact its new brass vs reloaded with a different crimp.

Overall I am enjoying this conversation and journey I am on and look forward to the future

 

[oremike]

You might go to a heavier bullet. I like heavy for caliber so my woods carry 357 load is with 180gr bullets. I like the Hardcast TC bullets for the penetration but Hornady makes 180gr XTP's if you want an expanding bullet.