Registering a pistol as SBR pitfalls

[RobMa]

I have read and seen that once you have registered your pistol as an sbr that it loses protection under the Second amendment, is this valid?
With all this _TF crackdown on brace owners I was wondering what pitfalls will befall anyone who registers their firearms. (lets not talk about the possibility of a gun registry, from what I have heard that is just speculation)
Lets just talk about actual codified law...

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[Member 34319]

They said they were going to take them away when my grandfather was alive...

They said they were going to take them away when my dad had them....

They keep telling me that they are going to take mine away...

How exactly is the 2nd amendment voided by registering a NFA item? Is it still not a gun? Are you not bearing an arm?

If anything it's because of the 2nd amendment you can still own these items and they are not entirely and completely banned.

 

[RobMa]

They said they were going to take them away when my grandfather was alive...

They said they were going to take them away when my dad had them....

They keep telling me that they are going to take mine away...

How exactly is the 2nd amendment voided by registering a NFA item? Is it still not a gun? Are you not bearing an arm?

If anything it's because of the 2nd amendment you can still own these items and they are not entirely and completely banned.

I agree, but there are many who would like to eliminate the second amendment...

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

Lets just talk about actual codified law...

Make up your mind, do you want to talk about what the ATF may or may not do, or do you want to talk about actual laws, because they are not the same thing

 

[Stomper]

OK, everyone relax and stop cowering and wringing your hands in the corner.... braces are NOT banned.

Watch this credible video on this very subject that clarifies the current situation:

 

[Camelfilter]

This topic is about NFA registered firearms, and a hypothetical question revolving around them.

My thoughts lean more towards firearms on the registry, and there owners being left alone. "They" already have a "list", and owners are already vetted.

Caveat of course being, should a state change there current law which would / could prohibit owning NFA firearms, or particular classes of such.

 

[Nwcid]

I have read and seen that once you have registered your pistol as an sbr that it loses protection under the Second amendment, is this valid?

I do not know if it is valid or not because I do not know what you mean by loose protection..... I own several NFA firearms and I have given up no rights or protections.

The rules and regulations for NFA Title 2 vs non-NFA Title 1 firearms are different. Also what you are allowed to do by state law may vary. For example in WA you can legally conceal cary a pistol if you have your license, but not a SBR.

If you really want to know about NFA items, the ATF NFA handbook is the best place to learn, https://www.atf.gov/firearms/national-firearms-act-handbook

 

[The Heretic]

I have read and seen that once you have registered your pistol as an sbr that it loses protection under the Second amendment, is this valid?

By law? Not that I am aware of. In effect (i.e., de facto) - maybe by the fact that it is on some list the government possesses and vulnerability of the gov changing the law (as they have several times with regards to the NFA).

One aspect that I point out when this comes up, is that an owner of an SBR/SBS has to tell the ATF when they take the firearm across state lines, and where they are taking it to. Also, like any other NFA "firearm", transferring the firearm is not as straightforward as with a non-NFA firearm.

Beyond that, there is no plausible deniability with NFA firearms - no "gee, all my NFA firearms were lost in a tragic boating accident officer" when the gov decides they want those firearms "back" (i.e., confiscation). That said, this may change with non-NFA firearms - it already has in some states where they require notice of lost or stolen firearms of any kind - but a state cannot do that across state lines - only the feds can, and they do with the NFA firearms.

So, pistol braces or not, as long as we can still have "pistols" (e.g., AR/AK, etc.) I prefer them over SBRs, and my Shockwaves over SBSs.

Probably the only NFA item I will ever get will be suppressors - maybe this next year I will dive into that.

 

[The Heretic]

If anything it's because of the 2nd amendment you can still own these items and they are not entirely and completely banned.

Not yet - but "they" are working on it, slowly but surely.

The infrastructure has to be in place first. It is there for NFA items; they have those lists and there are very few illegal NFA items out there - most are on the list - and the illegal ones are mostly in the possession of criminals.

Those who would disarm us are much less interested in criminal activity than they are in law abiding citizens possessing any firearm that could be used for a defense against government oppression. Indeed, in some respects (e.g., the war on drugs) the government is in bed with the criminals.

 

[User 1234]

If someone wants to sell an SBR the most practical way to do it is keep the stripped lower and sell everything else. That way if you want to rebuild it you already have the approved stamp and the engraved lower. (Assuming no laws changed in the meantime to prohibit assembly or manufacture).
If someone travels across state lines frequently just keep a pistol lower handy to swap the upper onto. See 2.5: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/undefined/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-2/download


Or submit the form once a year requesting a year of permission.
Anyone getting into NFA firearms should read the ATF's NFA handbook.

 

[RobMa]

Remember what happened during Katrina? It was a great excuse to disarm people. They could do it again if all hell breaks out in Seattle because of the new laws protecting criminals from prosecution. Meaning if they allow the crime to become so rampant that is. It would be another great excuse to confiscate peoples guns. (which has been suggested by others to the real reasons they are proposing these types of laws)

 

[User 1234]

If they want to find out where gun owners live it would be very easy. CPL database, pistol database, 4473's, internet ammo shipping records....

 

[RobMa]

With the recently released letter the _TF pretty much cover all the bases so you can't have any wiggle room, also there's so much gray area that they can use any excuse to take anything away and charge you for a crime.

Even if you were to put a straight buffer tube with a foam pad (so it still functions) and strip your firearm of everything that they mentioned they can still cite the fact that the caliber makes it an sbr and you're still Scr_wed. This is nothing more than a blatant attempt to terrify people into getting rid of them, not building them or registering them and putting those who do at even further risk of future laws that may outlaw them out right.

No governing power wants an armed population and we have seen that time and time again throughout history.

 

[The Heretic]

If they want to find out where gun owners live it would be very easy. CPL database, pistol database, 4473's, internet ammo shipping records....

If a person is a resident of a "free" state - e.g. Idaho, then a plausible scenario is that a non NFA firearm that is on some "list" was sold or given to another state resident without an FFL becoming involved. Of course, this may change with the Biden regime.

Also, I am currently under no obligation to divulge the whereabouts of my firearms since they are not NFA firearms. I can, should and would just not say anything regarding my firearms.

 

[wired]

I think some of this has to do with misinterpretation of the US v. Miller ruling . The justices , who made one of their worst rulings since Plessy v Fergusson, claimed that Miller had no 2A protection because sawed off shotguns are not weapons used in war ( which was wrong anyway ) because Millers lawyers did not participate in the hearing and Miller was on the lamb. The feeling being at the time that the 2nd amendment only protected weapons used by the militia . You know, "well regulated militia" and that problem had been largely solved with the Dick Act that created the National Guard and abolished the old state militias. . So somehow someone on the internet , probably that idiot Nick Leghorn, put two and two together and decided that all NFA regulated weapons werent covered by the 2nd amendment. We look at the 2nd amendment different these days than the 1930's justices did.

 

[GWS]

I have read and seen that once you have registered your pistol as an sbr that it loses protection under the Second amendment, is this valid?

What did you see that proves this?

 

[Murphy9190]

I have read and seen that once you have registered your pistol as an sbr that it loses protection under the Second amendment, is this valid?
With all this _TF crackdown on brace owners I was wondering what pitfalls will befall anyone who registers their firearms. (lets not talk about the possibility of a gun registry, from what I have heard that is just speculation)
Lets just talk about actual codified law...

When you register anything, you grant the state an interest in it, as a party. Registration of anything is a contract and enforceable as such - read the registration document. Register a car and the state has an interest in it and can tow it when you break the contract agreement. Only commercial entities are required to register a car or have a drivers license. It is long settled law and I can show you dozens of court cases citing people have a right to travel without restriction, but if you don't know your Rights and how to protect them, you don't have them. Register yourself to vote and you are now a 14th amendment citizen who has surrendered/traded his Rights for "civil liberties" and "civil rights". Further, when you register to vote you establish "residency" (watch that word) in the incorporated United States,

Your Rights come from God and as such are "unalienable" and beyond the reach and control of men. No man can usurp those rights as a matter of law becasue man's law recognizes God's law as Supreme, but you can be tricked and defrauded of your Rights.

If you register a gun you surrender that gun to the state by granting them a primary or paramount interest and thereafter you possess that gun at the grace of the state. That is the law, and it is a contract you consented to when you registered it, but you also can be required to register that gun by the legal force of other contracts you have consented to, but are unaware of. Same with your cars and same with your house. This is a large subject requiring much more space than available here.

There are two main classes of citizenship in America, 1. American State National who has all his Rights intact as mentioned in the Constitution and a US citizen, which is a "federal citizen" applicable to the "territories" of the US government, which include Washington DC (foreign private City/State), Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, land ceded to it by the states, post offices, federal buildings, military forts etc. etc, but unless you were born in one of these "territorial" areas, you are not a US citizen.

The class of "federal government citizen" was created by the 14th amendment, and did not exist prior to. The federal government, and all states and all corporations operate under private commercial law or Admiralty/Maritime Law in the Sea Jurisdiction - which is why you see the gold fringe on the flag in courtrooms, in banks, and usually behind the President, depending on what he is doing at the time. Gold fringe signifies Admiralty Law in Maritime (Sea) jurisdiction. The federal government has no common law and does not recognize common law.

Wherever you are born in America, you are born "on the land" in the Land and Soil Jurisdiction of American common law however, as soon as you are born the hospital "registers" your birth with the state/federal government and typically your mother signs the Birth Certificate. This is the first step towards moving you off the land jurisdiction and into =sea jurisdiction of admiralty law as a US citizen. Now when you are born, they insist on giving you a SSN, used to be you didn't get one until you got a job. The moment you "apply" for a SSN you apply to be a US citizen and "resident" of the "territorial" United States (government). If you read your Constitution, you will see the "United States" will form "a district" (District of Columbia) and in that district it shall have exclusive legislative jurisdiction and authority. In other words, the government (civil statutory) law is the Supreme law in that area and there is no common law and it's citizens do not have rights, they have state granted privileges. These are the "right" mentioned in the Bill of Rights etc., but these "rights" are not even remotely the same as the "Rights" possessed by an American State National - who has all rights intact and available and is not required to register anything.

Another common misconception is that your Rights are created and guaranteed by the Constitution, they are not. The Rights mentioned in the Amendments were put there to force and remind the government the People of the United States of America had Rights that preexisted the Constitution. The Constitution is not a "positive" docuement, it is a contract for the federal government to perform 19 enumerated service for the American People while forceing the government to recognize the preexisting Rights of the People 0- this si how this country was founded.

Common law is exercised on the local and state level, which is why the State Flags always used to fly at the top of the flagpole with the US flag underneath, then as the states were bribed to incorporate themselves the positions changed and the US flag flew over the State Flag. Now, you rarely see the State flags flying at all because the assumption is considered to be complete.

In short, we have all been defrauded of our rights and make no mistake, they are coming for your guns and can legally do so when you are on record as being a US citizen rather than an American State National and have no record of ever having disputed this presumption, along with all the contracts you have willingle signed, consented and agreed to, like SSN;s, drivers licenses, car registrations, voter registrations, birth certificate registrations, incorporated entities operating in commerce etc.

Based on the Birth Certificate, the governement and the state forms a number of entities in your name. These are fictional "legal" entities and is why all governmental communications to and with you always have your name spelled in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS. All caps refers to the commercial fictional "jurisdictional person" they have created (see Strawman), but not to you as the living man or woman. They have jurisdiction over entities they create nad exercise this same jurisdiction over you every time you answer up as one of these entities. You have been converted from the Land Jurisdiction into commercial jurisdiction and your name has been used to form "incorporated" and legal entities they then treat you as.

This is why you are "presumed to know the Law", to make it all tidy and "legal"

Further, the federal government and every state and every city and county is now incorporated. If you think about this, you can see that corporations do not make Law, as they are created by law. But they can make "private law", like when walmart requires you to wear a blue vest or Taco Bell requires you to wear a uniform. Once you understand all this, and the law, you will see the United States government Inc, and the State of California, Inc. have all the lawmaking ability of Taco Bell, but has simply hijacked you into its private incorporated jurisdiction, through your consent of course. You are presumed to know the law.

Inside these corporations is where you have established "residency". That is the word they use because of course a real living person cannot "live" in a corporation, so they defined a corporation as a "person" and defined "residency" as you being that "person".

This is all referred to, by those who know, as the Great Fraud.

Probably raised more questions that answered, but again, make no mistake, you have already given up every gun you have registered. They are just creating the scenario under which they can most easily take them without too much of a fuss from you. Have you not noticed in the last year that all Rights are gone?

The State and Federal government can trample all over them with impunity and a Judge will actually find you in contempt if you insist on your "constitutional rights".

There is no such thing as "constitutional rights". The Constitution did not create rights, you got those from God whether you beleive in Him or not is not even remotely relevant to this issue. This is all a matter of law.

The United States of America was formed as a Confederacy of independent sovereign Atates operating under the delegated authority of the Sovereign People - who are Sovereign due to kinship with God (created in His Image) born and living on the land and soil jurisdiction and self-governing under American common law. America is a Confederacy of independent and sovereign nation-states. America is not a republic and there is no organic document that states or creates America as a republic. In all founding documents, the only reference to the word republic is a "republic type government". America is most certainly not a "democracy" (mob rule) and the founders were very clear about this distinction.

If you are interested in restoring your status as an American State National and securing all your Rights including your unalienable Right to Keep and Bear Arms, you need to correct your citizenship status and quit acting as and allowing the government to presume you as a territorial US citizen. Learn some law along the way. Do your kids a favor here.

She's not the only source, but a good place to start learning about this is http://annavonreitz.com/ Look to post 928 for the procedure and forms to correct your status.

 

[User 1234]

I'll just politely say that I disagree with some portions of the analysis above, but I wish you best of luck in the new year.

 

[wired]

I'll just politely say that I disagree with some portions of the analysis above, but I wish you best of luck in the new year.

Yeah my fingers were hurting just looking at all that type.

 

[SCARed]

Im not so polite.
Sovereign citizen BS is what it is. Full of the really smelly stuff. All from a one post wonder. GTFO