Re: Braces - Can I put a small pad on the end of the buffer tube?

[wired]

Wow I remember there was some deal on tobacco taxes a long time ago. I seem to recall little brown smoke shack raised there prices and started paying taxes. But can't remember now for sure. I just remember seeing their prices go way up all of a sudden and that was the rumor at that time.

The other tobacco owner guy must have just said F you I'm not paying, come get me.

Its way beyond the smoke shack. King Mountain ships cancer sticks all over the US. Its a big business

 

[Yarome]

No one knows. It's all speculation until the first person gets hooked up and gets to be the test subject. God rest his soul and his pocket book.

This!

It's all speculation until someone's wearing braclets. There are some absolute "safe" options, but any deviation and it's entirely ambigious.

 

[Yarome]

The guy who runs King Mountain Tobacco was well over $60 million in arrears in tobacco taxes last I heard. Th Feds cant come arrest him on the reservation and he's an Indian so as long as he doesn't leave and get caught he's untouchable..

As of a couple years ago the bill was over $75mil. The feds demanded payment within 30 days or face a levy on the company so they filed for bankruptcy protection. Last I heard their supreme court case for exemption was denied so.... likely so... he won't be making any costco runs off reservation land any time before his dirt nap.

WA state has been going after him for a long time as well... trying to get their piece of the pie.

I say... "Red Lives Matter"!

 

[Wombat of Doom]

Alcohol and Tobacco manufacturers just pay their taxes and dont cause trouble for the most part except for that crazy Indian up in Yakima. They get a lot of money from both.

To be fair some of my relatives in the Blue Ridge Mountains still give the A part of ATF trouble. I know some of my kin still are running stills. I don't know which ones anymore and I don't care. I always hated to encounter stills when running wild in the woods up there as a kid. Some of those folks shoot first, recognize you from the family reunion later. Nobody shot at me up there, but my cousins and I have stories.

 

[wired]

As of a couple years ago the bill was over $75mil. The feds demanded payment within 30 days or face a levy on the company so they filed for bankruptcy protection. Last I heard their supreme court case for exemption was denied so.... likely so... he won't be making any costco runs off reservation land any time before his dirt nap.

WA state has been going after him for a long time as well... trying to get their piece of the pie.

I say... "Red Lives Matter"!

Im sure he's got the local Yakima cops paid off pretty good. He could probably have a parade down the middle of what passes for downtown in Yakima without incident. As a former Yakima resident its a good place to be from. Far from.

 

[Stomper]

Title...

I understand that if the buffer tube is integral to the working of the firearm it can stay on. If I take the stock off, can I put a small pad on the end of the tube to keep it safe from bumping into things? = )

Also, "Buffer Tube Protective Device(tm) coming soon! Sign up and get your BTPD TODAY! = )

FYI- I remember hearing about a case of someone putting the rubber cap from the bottom of a walking cane onto the end of a buffer tube and it was ruled a no-go.

 

[DirectDrive]

Title...

I understand that if the buffer tube is integral to the working of the firearm it can stay on. If I take the stock off, can I put a small pad on the end of the tube to keep it safe from bumping into things? = )

Also, "Buffer Tube Protective Device(tm) coming soon! Sign up and get your BTPD TODAY! = )

A pad would indicate "intent to shoulder"
And that's what this whole pistol brace war is about.

 

[Yarome]

A pad would indicate "intent to shoulder"
And that's what this whole pistol brace war is about.

Unless it really is just a "tube end protector".... then we're back into speculation territory. Considering buffer tubes aren't the sturdiest a good argument could be made, but is it worth fighting over(?)

We may be making fear based assumptions leaning way too far on how absurdly strict the alphabet might be and if it would ever even be a chargeable offense or just a, "hey, you gotta take that off, buddy." if it ever even did come to any officials notice.

No one can say at this point.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

A pad would indicate "intent to shoulder"
And that's what this whole pistol brace war is about.

Intent is not needed at all for this. ATF changed the original definition of rifle, "designed, manufactureed, and intended to be fired from the shoulder", to any component... that has surface area that ALLOWS it to be shouldered. That is a fundamental change from the law that congress passed. If there is a rearward protrusion that has surface area that allows it to be shouldered that is enough with their current purposely vague definition. See their definition posted in post #4 or #11 above.

 

[Member 53328]

Unless it really is just a "tube end protector".... then we're back into speculation territory. Considering buffer tubes aren't the sturdiest a good argument could be made, but is it worth fighting over(?)

We may be making fear based assumptions leaning way too far on how absurdly strict the alphabet might be and if it would ever even be a chargeable offense or just a, "hey, you gotta take that off, buddy." if it ever even did come to any officials notice.

No one can say at this point.

Tube protector. Aka condom. Hahaha.

 

[DirectDrive]

From Worksheet 4999 (which may or may not be used according to some)
Material added to increase Rear Surface for shouldering (3 pts)

So it's on their radar screen.
Is it for shouldering or is it to protect the buffer tube ?
Why go there with added material in the first place ?
Will this whole mess be struck down ?
If not, will an SBA3 be legal as a pistol brace ?
Can I wear a padded skeet vest and be in possession of an AR pistol ?
LOL

A lot of questions still out there.

 

[Yarome]

Tube protector. Aka condom. Hahaha.

Ok... I walked right into that one. Good catch!

2 points!

 

[RedneckRampage]

Back before braces were a thing, I knew a guy who modified his plate carrier to have a "socket" where the buffer tube went, when he shouldered it. It was ugly, and didn't help if he wasn't wearing his carrier, but he said it worked really well.

 

[Member 53328]

Intent is not "needed" but it dam sure will be used against you and will not help your case.

About as many people will buy into the idea that the pad is there to protect a buffer tube…… as the amount of people who bought into the idea of a pistol brace being used to "stabilize" a "pistol" while firing one handed instead of being shouldered and used as a stock. Haha.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Intent is not "needed" but it dam sure will be used against you and will not help your case.

About as many people will buy into the idea that the pad is there to protect a buffer tube…… as the amount of people who bought into the idea of a pistol brace being used to "stabilize" a "pistol" while firing one handed instead of being shouldered and used as a stock. Haha.

Who fires a pistol one handed except to train if one hand were wounded etc.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

From Worksheet 4999 (which may or may not be used according to some)
Material added to increase Rear Surface for shouldering (3 pts)

So it's on their radar screen.
Is it for shouldering or is it to protect the buffer tube ?
Why go there with added material in the first place ?
Will this whole mess be struck down ?
If not, will an SBA3 be legal as a pistol brace ?
Can I wear a padded skeet vest and be in possession of an AR pistol ?
LOL

A lot of questions still out there.

The 4999 scorecard is officially gone. However since ATF provides no objective criteria or defintions, only subjective "things they may consider", who knows they may refer to their old scorecard and not tell anyone. They may also see some dufus on youtube being an idiot and they can use that against you according to their new rule (page 288). It's pure subjective BS so they can prosecute whoever they want. There is no way this will stand IMO. It's only a matter of time before this is thrown out and how it's thrown out (i.e. in parts, in it's entirety etc.). Beyond the constitutional and separation of powers violations, a person has a right to actually know what the law is that they are going to be prosecuted for. They can't just make up on the fly what constitutes a violation that may put someone in jail for 10 years, That will not stand.

 

[Member 53328]

Who fires a pistol one handed except to train if one hand were wounded etc.

Nobody. You literally just validated the ATFs viewpoint on "braces" without saying it outright. No one is out shooting AR15s with one hand. Hence the reason a "brace" is not needed (unless you are disabled).

Not that I agree with it. But the pistol brace wasn't made to stabilize anything. It was a work around to get an SBR without paying for a stamp and still having the legalities of a pistol.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Nobody. You literally just validated the ATFs viewpoint on "braces" without saying it outright. No one is out shooting AR15s with one hand. Hence the reason a "brace" is not needed (unless you are disabled).

Not that I agree with it. But the pistol brace wasn't made to stabilize anything. It was a work around to get an SBR without paying for a stamp and still having the legalities of a pistol.

No one shoots an unbraced pistol one handed either except for training purposes or if they are missing a limb.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

No one shoots an unbraced pistol one handed either except for training purposes or if they are missing a limb.

I would by far prefer to shoot my 1911 with both hands. Almost any gun I would prefer to use 2 hands in as most shooters do. Most trained shooting positions for a carry or duty size pistol are 2 handed.

I spend a lot of time 1 handed point shooting. But that is training

 

[Yarome]

Who fires a pistol one handed except to train if one hand were wounded etc.

Bangers.... and Asian action film stars....




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