Ishapore Jungle Carbine?

[War Bird Radio]

So I've seen these so called Ishapore No7 Jungle Carbines sold by Gibbs and I think Navy Arms. I'm sorry if you own one but I think they're.... well.... ugly! Not trying to offend anyone but really they don't have the graceful lines of the original No5 carbine. And the sight radius is so dang short.

So I started this thread because I purchased a Ishapore 2A about five years ago to convert into a carbine along the lines of the No5 or really along the lines of what Golden State Arms did back in the '50s and '60s. GSA converted a bunch of Lee Enfields in to "Jungle Carbines". They even converted some No1 Mk3 Enfields and since that is what the Ishy 2A is based on I took their lead.

Here is the before photos:




Now the after photo:






Also made another rear sight that takes Williams Screw in Apertures.


Left the original butt stock since it's easier on my shoulder than my No5 with it's small hard rubber padded butt stock.

I guess it's more of a Scout Rifle except I'm not putting a scope on it.

This was a fairly easy conversion that shed about 2lbs off the +9lb rifle.
I think It came out ok.

Read More

 

[The Heretic]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

That is a nice example of a nice looking conversion.

I have an ugly Ishapore carbine where someone milled down the rear sight and put a scout scope mount on it. It works well and since I paid $220 for it (with cheap scope) I don't care if it gets banged up. Cycles better than any Mauser based rifle I have ever used. It would be a good truck or stash gun.

 

[orygun]

I remember the Gibbs Quest rifles which were converted to 45-70. Tried to buy one, but the gun store I was dealing with went out of business. In the past I've had a couple of Golden State reworks, one was a rebarreled and restocked rifle called the Mountaineer. That one I restocked with an NOS Fajen stock and used a Williams sight on it, too.
I prefer the looks of a No4 or No5 action better than the No1 and 2, but getting rid of the original sights sure cleaned up the looks of this rifle. How long is the barrel now?

It's a darn nice looking rifle. Good job.

This is the one I had.

 

[War Bird Radio]

Heretic,
The all Enfield actions are smoother than any Mauser action. And they are fast actions as well.

orygun,
That's a nice looking sporter. I notice it has a hollowed out bolt handle. Those were made for the No5 carbines. Hope they didn't mill off the rear sight base of a No5 action!

I see it has the 5 round magazine GSA made. Tried for along time to find one but was always missed out.

I agree with you that the No4 & 5 actions look better then the No1. If I could find a No4 or 5 in 7.62 x 51 I'd be all over it.

The barrel on the 2A is cut to No5 length, 17.8 before the flash hider was installed. The forestock and hand guard are cut to No5 length too. The hand guard is a cut down No4 hand guard I purchased from Numrich.

 

[orygun]

orygun,
That's a nice looking sporter. I notice it has a hollowed out bolt handle. Those were made for the No5 carbines. Hope they didn't mill off the rear sight base of a No5 action!

I see it has the 5 round magazine GSA made. Tried for along time to find one but was always missed out.

No worries, it wasn't a #5 to start with. Some of the bolts for #4s had the hollowed bolt, too. This one also had a replacement barrel that had a much heavier contour than the original barrels and required a bunch of sanding to allow the new forend to fit.

The GSA 5 round magazine and the stock set were e-bay finds. I believe I paid more for the mag than the stock set!

When I was young I wanted a Jungle Carbine for hunting to go with Dad's No4 MKI T. A few years ago I did pick up a real #5. Now it just sits in the safe.... And Dad's gone, so his "sniper" stays in the wooden case...

 

[P7M13]

I think the work you did is beautiful.

When my dad came back from Germany after post-war service, he brought home a mauser and a jungle carbine. As a kid, I always thought the jungle carbine was the mauser. Both were stolen when the house was robbed (Detroit).
This is what his Jungle Carbine looked like:

I saw one in rough shape that was probably a conversion, and thought about buying it for his 90th birthday. His wife said NO. Had no desire to get it for myself, even at $295.

 

[War Bird Radio]

P7id10T,
I bought my first Lee Enfield 35 years ago, a No4 Mk1 in excellent all original shape for $45. My first centerfire rifle. I thought it was such a good deal I went around all the gun shops in Portland buying what Enfields I could find in the same price range. I ended up with 3 No4s, 1 No1 Mk3 and one No5 Mk1. The No5 cost $75. Andy and Bax at the same time was getting out of selling firearms and they had a big stash of .303 surplus ammo. I made them a offer that was just pennies a round and I got it all. I had a lot of fun with those rifles. Never had a T sniper rifle but one of my No4s with the flip up micrometer sight was real accurate.

Over the years like many things I moved on to other guns and hobbies till I bought the Ishy 2A. Just after I bought the 2A I found a sporterized No4 Mk1 with 1942 date. A real war gun. I turned it into a No5 carbine and it came out ok.

Here's a before photo


Here's an after photo

 

[revjen45]

This thread pinpoints the dilemma for someone who has a 2A/2A1 in reasonably good shape:
1) Leave it stock with maybe some clean up
2) Turn it into a faux Jungle Carbine
When I was in gunsmithing school there was a class in military conversions. That idea is why nice old original military rifles are a lot more rare than they used to be. The days of "sporterizing" an original P17 Enfield are long gone, just like people don't make choppers out of an Indian Chief any more. Given the crop of modern base level boltguns that deliver out of the box accuracy better than most accurized rifles of 40 years ago for a lot less than the price of a military rifle plus the services of a gunsmith, cutting up an original sounds a lot less appealing than it did back then. I think that if I had a nice 2A/2A1 I would leave it alone.

 

[tac]

When my dad came back from Germany after post-war service, he brought home a mauser and a jungle carbine. As a kid, I always thought the jungle carbine was the mauser. Both were stolen when the house was robbed (Detroit).

You mean stolen for the second time. No British or Commonwealth soldier was ever allowed to keep a bringback. MPs stood on the brow of every troopship and watched them boys dump all their stuff overboard as they joined ship. And what was a No5 doing in Germany?

tac

 

[P7M13]

You mean stolen for the second time. No British or Commonwealth soldier was ever allowed to keep a bringback. MPs stood on the brow of every troopship and watched them boys dump all their stuff overboard as they joined ship. And what was a No5 doing in Germany?

tac

Touche on stolen. As far as why in Germany, that's what I wondered when I learned what it was. Alas, don't know if Dad could remember. Will ask next time I talk with him.

 

[War Bird Radio]

Revjen45,
An Ishapore 2A might be considered a collecetable some day but if it ever is it will be long after I'm dead and gone. They were never in any major conflict and are a cheap version of the No1 Mk3 that the Brits made at the Ishapore factory before the Indians took over.

I did the work myself except pinning the flashhider. I had a retired gunsmith help with that. The gun is far more valuable to me as it is now and the experience I gained is worth more then the gun.

So I took a 10 pound gun that was used rarely and made it into a 7 pound gun that gets used often. What's not to like?

And remember, our most dearest possessions are just junk... if not now, they will be some day.

 

[War Bird Radio]

"What was a No5 doing in Germany?" My guess is it was in the hands of a British soldier fighting the Germans. That is till he got killed or taken prisoner.

From my reading the No5 was developed from the No4 for paratroopers and was first used in WWII during Operation Market Garden. The nic name "Jungle Carbine" came about after the war during the Malay Emergency in the 1950s.

 

[tac]

Note please that the British and Commonwealth Armies, Royal Navies and Royal Air Forces also operated in the Far East, and that the No5 was also issued there in large numbers. The sobriquet 'Jungle' was applied to it by ground troops there, not just in the late 40's/early 50's of the Malayan Emergency.

tac

 

[War Bird Radio]

tac,
Yes, yes, we can't forget Burma...

Here is an interesting article about the history of the No5 after WWII.
No.5 Mk.I Jungle Carbine: post-WWII use

The author did a good job of chronicling the No5 after WWII but to say it's probably the most obsecure and least successful of Lee Enfields variants shows his lack of knowledge of the Lee Enfield models.
All in all it's still a good article and very interesting.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.And remember, our most dearest positions are just junk... if not now, they will be some day.

My dearest position is so dear the missionaries named it.

 

[orygun]

My dearest position is so dear the missionaries named it.

Oh, Heck yeah!

I think War Bird Radio meant possessions...

 

[War Bird Radio]

Well now, isn't that special... I better go fix that little faux pas or someone could get the wrong idea... too late!

I'll just blame the auto correction on the iPad!

 

[revjen45]

War Bird Radio
The logic of your post is inescapable. It remains a possibility.
My mental picture of an Ishapore Jungle Carbine would have an M-14 muzzle attachment.
I will show your post to my friend who has a 2A1.

 

[orygun]

This one's mine.
I got it out just to take this pic (sorry, my phone sucks) and decided that I need to go shoot some of the handloads I got from @Spitpatch through it. I know I shot this once, but I couldn't tell you when. I got it minus the recoil pad, butt"plate"/sling loop and the screw that holds them on. The replacement parts are reproduction, but the rest of it is a non-import marked original. Just looking at it reminds me of lusting over one as a kid. This is a cool little rifle. Maybe I should sight it in and hunt with it?

FYI, they don't kick hard.

 

[bbbass]

Well, I had to look "Ishapore" up.