- Messages
- 4,164
- Reactions
- 2,252
If we are going by your link then I sure hope the people of the jury are ones that find it "reasonable" to follow the written law and not rules they add.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
I have been searching to try and find ANY case of someone being charged with "knowingly" selling a gun and not having any luck. Basically every "link" I went to had the same quoting of the law and the same beating of the dead horse we have here. Half follow the law and half want whatever makes them feel good.
The only thing I did come up with is this, <broken link removed> which also adds to the confusion. How about a alien with a state DL? They have valid ID but are still not legal buyers......
I actually found a couple of cases that contradict my statement, but I still maintain my opinion it is better to do your best checking out your buyer
Franco v. Bunyard, 547 S.W.2d 91 (Ark. 1977)
In this case the Arkansas supreme court reverses a summary judgment in favor of the defendants, who sold a handgun to a prison escapee, who used the gun th next day to kill hostages as a grocery store he was robbing. The court decides that as the defendants violated the federal Gun Control Act in making the sale, by not requiring the buyer identify himself, and by not making him complete a 4473 form, they were negligent, and that negligence was a legal cause of the shooting.
http://www.constitution.org/2ll/bardwell/franco_v_bunyard.txt
Robinson v. Howard Brothers of Jackson, Inc., 372 So.2d 1074 (1979)
In this case the Mississippi supreme court rejects a suit brought against a store that sold a 20 year old a handgun, which he later used to kill his ex-girlfriend. The court finds that the fact that the sale may have been illegal was not a proximate cause of the death, the intentional act of the killer was the cause, and not the store's negligence in selling the gun.
http://www.constitution.org/2ll/bardwell/robinson_v_howard.txt
If you will note in the "franco v bunyard" case the seller "not making him (the purchaser) complete a 4473"
This requirement is only pertinent to licensed dealers (FFL's). Private sellers are not required by federal law to fill out a 4473. Yes, I would assume that an FFL that sold a weapon without a 4473 could be convicted and loose his FFL minimum.
The Mississippi court is speaking about personal liability...and as I said, there is a federal law (also) that protects the seller...in the case of a legal sale, Mississippi here says, even if the sale was not legal, the seller was not liable.
Private sales are not "licensed" sales, that takes an FFL. Different states have different rules for private sales...and in OR, WA, and ID they state you cannot sell to a prohibited person, define what that prohibited person is, and then say "Knowing them to be such"
This means, if you know the person is an illegal alien, if you know the person is a convicted felon, if you know the person has a restraining order...etc..
The US goes by the assumption of innocence that is "innocent until proven guilty". Simply asking a person "are you a prohibited person and a resident of .." is totally sufficient according to the law. Requiring proof assumes that the person is "guilt of lying unless proven otherwise" Myself, I would take great personal exception to being assumed a lier.
If you will note in the "franco v bunyard" case the seller "not making him (the purchaser) complete a 4473"
This requirement is only pertinent to licensed dealers (FFL's). Private sellers are not required by federal law to fill out a 4473. Yes, I would assume that an FFL that sold a weapon without a 4473 could be convicted and loose his FFL minimum.
How do I (resident of Oregon) sell to a friend in Washington? Ship to his FFL- even if it is just across the bridge in Vancouver? can I take the gun(s) to his FFL? Can he take the guns from me in Oregon, drive across the bridge to his FFL?? Thanks for the advice offered-
I am wondering if anyone can tell me how to give a handgun to a relative in Idaho while I still live here ? As a gift, do I need a FFL ?
If I move to Idaho soon, and then give to him there is it any different ?
Thanks for any informed replies on this .
I am wondering if anyone can tell me how to give a handgun to a relative in Idaho while I still live here ? As a gift, do I need a FFL ?
If I move to Idaho soon, and then give to him there is it any different ?
Thanks for any informed replies on this .
Are FTF sales of receivers permitted across state lines? I would not, but since they are not complete firearms I'm not sure.
Are private party handgun sales between two Oregon residents required to have a background check on the recipient? ORS 166.436 states:
"Prior to transferring a firearm, a transferor other than a gun dealer may request by telephone that the department conduct a criminal background check on the recipient..."
Generally speaking, the word "may" in legalese means "optional" whereas the word "shall" means "required"
Does anyone know for certain that a background check between private parties (both Oregon residents) is not required?
Are private party handgun sales between two Oregon residents required to have a background check on the recipient? ORS 166.436 states:
"Prior to transferring a firearm, a transferor other than a gun dealer may request by telephone that the department conduct a criminal background check on the recipient..."
Generally speaking, the word "may" in legalese means "optional" whereas the word "shall" means "required"
Does anyone know for certain that a background check between private parties (both Oregon residents) is not required?
I cannot believe you quoted the published LAW and do not believe it.
It's not that I don't believe it so much as I'm not an attorney and am prudent enough not to have interpreted the law as if I were one.
I did contact my attorney on this just to verify. Here's what he said:
I read the statute the same as you doyou may but do not have to get a background check. To be absolutely sure, without providing anyone with your name, I called the Oregon Department of State Police (503-378-3720), who directed me to the Portland ATF (503-331-7830), who confirmed that you do not need to do a background check for the in-state private party sale of a GCA (Gun Control Act) firearm, although you have the option to do so by calling the Oregon Department of State Police (503-378-3070). Of course, the person you are selling to must not be otherwise prohibited from owning a firearm (e.g., because they are a felon, mentally disabled, etc.). Im not sure how you figure that out absent a background check. Nevertheless, both the Portland ATF and I recommend that (1) you have a background check run; and (2) that you fill out a bill of sale, listing the type of gun, its serial number, the date of the sale, etc., signed by both parties, and you keep a copy of the same.