Best way to build a SBR AK?

[Unka-Boo]

AOW will still cost $200 to make, $5 is just the transfer fee for an existing AOW.

Cheapest way right now would be a Romanian Draco pistol, then SBR it. I you shop right, it could be done for less than $650.

 

[wired]

That is not correct. The only numbers that matter are the receiver numbers. None of the other numbered parts are the receiver so they cannot be registered as a gun.

Also there are no numbers on a rear AK trunnion, the truth is what people call a rear trunnion isn't technically as trunnion either. Correction some trunnions are numbered per stitchclimbers post below.

#1 Yes. I edited it myself right after posting when I saw it was the stock trunnion he was talking about.

#2. The barrel trunnion cannot be replaced if the serial numbers are on it. The ATF has issued several opinion letters on this and to replace the barrel trunnion would be defacing the serial numbers even though technically the trunnion is not the receiver. If the trunnion has the serial numbers it is legally considered part of the receiver even though for 922r purposes it is a seeparate component. Putting the same serial numbers on another trunnion is still defacing the original numbers. Not making it up.

 

[Trlsmn]

#1 Yes. I edited it myself right after posting when I saw it was the stock trunnion he was talking about.

#2. The barrel trunnion cannot be replaced if the serial numbers are on it. The ATF has issued several opinion letters on this and to replace the barrel trunnion would be defacing the serial numbers even though technically the trunnion is not the receiver. If the trunnion has the serial numbers it is legally considered part of the receiver even though for 922r purposes it is a seeparate component. Putting the same serial numbers on another trunnion is still defacing the original numbers. Not making it up.

Can you post a link to the ATF ruling on this?

 

[bmw2]

Cheapest way right now would be a Romanian Draco pistol, then SBR it. I you shop right, it could be done for less than $650.

That's what I was thinking. Just so I'm clear, the consensus it that modifying a pistol is legal, right?

 

[NorthernBornRebel]

If you buy a pistol, register it as a SBR and once you have the tax stamp, add a stock, it is perfectly legal. I am planning on getting one and converting it to an underfolder and maybe post sampling it.

 

[Trlsmn]

If you buy a pistol, register it as a SBR and once you have the tax stamp, add a stock, it is perfectly legal. I am planning on getting one and converting it to an underfolder and maybe post sampling it.

Braggart!

 

[Unka-Boo]

Can you post a link to the ATF ruling on this?

Curious also.......by that line of thinking, every single AK parts kit that has been made into a new rifle would be illegal.

 

[wired]

Curious also.......by that line of thinking, every single AK parts kit that has been made into a new rifle would be illegal.

If the trunnion was changed then yes. It would be illegal. 11 years ago I wrote a letter to ed owens who was then chief of the tech branch at the ATF and the reply I got back then was it was not possible to change the trunnion if it was serialized even if the new trunnion is serialzed the same as the old one as that would have the effect of defacing the serial numbers on the original receiver . That was 11 years ago and I no longer have the letter but I have seen others to that effect. I'll do some searching this evening but the ATF's position is/was that it is not possible to change the trunnion if the trunnion is serialized part unless the original manufacturer is the one that does it. Now I have heard of a later opinion letter stating that it could be done but the new trunnion would be considered part of a newly manufactured receiver and would not even need serial numbers if done by an individual non licensee or would require a new excise tax payment and new registration if done by a licensed manufacturer. I have not seen that letter.

 

[wired]

http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin...post-33-13536-ATF_Ltr_Relocate_SN_on_AK47.pdf

"As you may be aware, 18 U.S.C. § 922(k) states that it "shall be unlawful for any person
knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has
had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess
or receive any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed,
obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign
commerce."
Removing the original serial-numbered trunnion section of a semiautomatic Chinese AK-type
receiver and replacing it with a similar, unmarked European-type receiver section would be a
violation of the cited statute. Further, this action would constitute the manufacture of anew
receiver, different from the original"


This comes up every now and then on different message boards. There are always two camps . The...

a. "Of course you can do it...They sell the parts" group

and the

b. "No its illegal because the ATF said so" group

Someone drags a letter out. Everyone gets pissed.

 

[rdb241]

Bmw2...I hate to rain on your parade. Even though the feds say it is OK to own a SBR or AOW, Washington state says that is a no no. September 6, 1996 a law was passed that there shall be no more SMR's or SBS's. What was already in the state was grandfathered in and you can keep what you had. But after that, no more. Washington gun laws suck. In 1934 the state passed the law about privately owning machineguns. The poloticians were scared of gangsters and tommyguns. So if you want a cool short barreled AK, it's time to move.

 

[wired]

You can have AOW's in WA.

 

[rdb241]

Not short barreled shotguns or short barreled rifles. You can not put a 10 inch barrel on a UZI. No more sawed of shotguns. The barrel HAS to be 18 inches long on a shot gun. The barrel on a rifle HAS to be 16 inches long on a rifle. The overall length of the said weapon has to be no less than 26 inches. With a folded stock folded. Yes you can own and posses a supressor, BUT don't get caught shooting it. In this state if you are caught shooting with a supressor it is a gross misdimeanor. Unless you are on Federal property like Fort Lewis or Yakima training center, etc. I guess a supressor might be considered an AOW. I guess if you are a LEO those laws don't apply. I am talking about the average citizen.

 

[wired]

silencers are are legal to own in WA with no military or leo exemptions to use . No one has ever been prosecuted for their use. I use mine all the time. They are not considered AOW's. They are silencers

 

[rdb241]

Are you a cop? I am at work right now but I will look up the RCW code on supressed weapons in Washington. It is a gross misdemeanor if caught shooting one and the cop wants to right you a ticket. State law in regards to supressors does not apply on federal property. Back to the discussion at hand...you can not own a SBR or a SBS in Washington.

 

[wired]

Oh, its definitely a gross misdemeanor and it wouldn't matter if I were a cop because there is no LEO exemption built into the law. Thats one of the reasons no one has ever been prosecuted for using a legally owned silencer in the state.

 

[Unka-Boo]

http://www.homegunsmith.com/cgi-bin...post-33-13536-ATF_Ltr_Relocate_SN_on_AK47.pdf

"As you may be aware, 18 U.S.C. § 922(k) states that it "shall be unlawful for any person
knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has
had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess
or receive any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed,
obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign
commerce."
Removing the original serial-numbered trunnion section of a semiautomatic Chinese AK-type
receiver and replacing it with a similar, unmarked European-type receiver section would be a
violation of the cited statute. Further, this action would constitute the manufacture of anew
receiver, different from the original"


This comes up every now and then on different message boards. There are always two camps . The...

a. "Of course you can do it...They sell the parts" group

and the

b. "No its illegal because the ATF said so" group

Someone drags a letter out. Everyone gets pissed.

If I'm following this right, it has only to do with previously imported firearms, not new rifles built from parts kits. The trunnion question comes into play because when they were imported, a lot, if not all Chinese rifles had the serial # on the trunnion, same with Century imported Romanian guns also I believe. So from that standpoint I can see where it would be considered "defacing" a serial number....
I don't think it would make a bit of difference on a gun assembled from a parts kit or a rifle that was imported with the number on the receiver, as you are not changing the serialized part.

 

[wired]

If I'm following this right, it has only to do with previously imported firearms, not new rifles built from parts kits. The trunnion question comes into play because when they were imported, a lot, if not all Chinese rifles had the serial # on the trunnion, same with Century imported Romanian guns also I believe. So from that standpoint I can see where it would be considered "defacing" a serial number....
I don't think it would make a bit of difference on a gun assembled from a parts kit or a rifle that was imported with the number on the receiver, as you are not changing the serialized part.

Only counts on factory built rifles. Hungarian, Egyptian, Chinese, Saigas, Romanian , Yugoslavian Finnish etc all had the serial number on the trunnion and for ATF purposes can be considered an integral part of the receiver even if they say its not a part of the receiver for other purposes. Parts kit guns have the serial number on the receiver and you can do whatever you want with those.

 

[onearmedswordsman]

BMW2,
IMHO, the best way is to start with a SBR kit. Krinkovs are a great option. But kits are pricy and scarse. AMD65 are more afordable and available. Check this one at GunBroker.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=145297151
And if you look you will find more.

This is how mine looks today:

Let us know when you cross the Columbia River bridge.

 

[wired]

BMW2,
IMHO, the best way is to start with a SBR kit. Krinkovs are a great option. But kits are pricy and scarse. AMD65 are more afordable and available. Check this one at GunBroker.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=145297151
And if you look you will find more.

This is how mine looks today:

Let us know when you cross the Columbia River bridge.

Looks vaguely familiar

 

[bmw2]

O.K. so I can build an SBR in Washington if I start with a parts kit and then buy a receiver and have it registered but I can't buy an AK pistol and modify it to use a buttstock. Correct?