National ATF is going after FRT

[Member 34319]

Also, no one is a felon, yet. That's not how these things work. I know certain you tubers love this stuff as they get lots of clicks. It's fear mongering. Likely, another 4-8 months will pass while legal battles between the ATF and RB take place. If RB loses, then their will likely be another month or so before the ATF subpoena RB for end user information, then a bit of time will pass before field agents to get that information. Then they may go knocking on doors with warrants, maybe. If they don't just mail you something with instructions on how to destroy or turn it in given a certain amount of time. After all that, if you don't comply, then you may get arrested for possession of an illegal machine gun.

Lucky those that bought third party!

 

[Provincial]

Louis Carroll saw the future clearly:


"When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all."

 

[HungN24]

It doesn't look like this has been posted yet, but here is RBT's response letter to the ATF (filed as a complaint in Court):

Rare Breed Triggers Response Letter to the ATF Cease and Desist

Below is the PACER downloaded response filed by attorney (and owner of Rare Breed Triggers) Kevin Maxwell to the ATF and DOJ Cease and Desist Letter. The level of due diligence and preparation that went into this product are absolutely stunning. I don't see how the ATF wins this one, their...

theinfidel.co

 

[Jcon268]

So where can we still buy Bumpstocks? Did not know the feds gave up on that.
For anyone who does not believe the feds can do anything they want? Great, if that makes you "feel better" you can believe anything you wish.
In the real world the feds have done this many times. Anyone who had been around for a while will remember a couple shotguns that were sold for a while. One day feds just said this is now an NFA weapon. Those who owned one could register it or if they "feel" the feds could not do that? They could thumb their nose at them and keep it. Adults get to make adult choices but, they also have to be ready to accept the adult consequences. Yes anyone who wishes is welcome to take them to court to fight it out. In the meantime anyone who "feels" the feds can do nothing, poke the bear. I don't feel like making myself a test case but, others are welcome to do so. The first black robe they end up in front of will not care how they "feel about it" sadly.

I'm not sure how it is poking to bear to play within the legal boundaries originally set forth by the agency they've deferred to. When THEY arbitrarily change the rules ex post facto, it's more like the bear is coming into town to eat everyone's lunch on a sunny afternoon. Nobody touched or even asked the bear to get involved.

This is why ATF talks from both sides of their mouths regarding pistol braces. First it's legal as long it isn't shouldered. Then they say that it's the design that constitutes legality and the intention in that design, not the action of shouldering itself. THEN they realized they probably gave too much latitude to pistol brace owners so they go a full 180 and start threatening to make pistol braces NFA controlled accessories and turn pistols to SBRs. All of this despite the fact that crimes committed with pistol braced firearms is negligible. Not even worth mentioning. It seems like the bear is the one doing the poking.

 

[Jcon268]

Yep I know for us its the state in the way but, what I am trying to convey here is all my life I have heard shooters claiming they "feel" some new law or rule does not past muster, so it can't be. I keep trying to tell them laws, rules, mean only what someone in charge tells you they mean. Is anyone still selling bumpstocks on line to any state at this point? Anyone still own one of those shotguns the feds just made an NFA item after they sold it to them as not being NFA? Did the congress ever pass a law backing this up?
I LOVE my pistol Braces. The feds have made it clear they do not like them. Suspect one day they will just say they are no more. Not by passing a law, rather they will just say so. I will have a choice then. Ignore the new "rule" because I "feel" they can't do this, or get rid of them. I will just get rid of mine. Emotions always get heavily involved in this stuff. I don't try to tell anyone else what choice to make. Only that they do have to be willing to live with the consequences of the choices they make. How they "feel" about any new rule or law really will mean zero if they end up in front of a black robe who says differently.
I do not "feel" our wanabe king governor had any rights to shut down business's on his word. He chose to pick winners and losers. I am sure it had a lot to do with who was buttering his bread. Now if I owned a small business and was told by king jay to shut it down? Whether I "felt" he was right or wrong would mean nothing. All that would matter is would I be willing to see if I could hire more lawyers than our AG.

I do see what you're saying here. Kind of like asking if this is the hill you really want to die on. With regards to pistol braces? Nah. I'd probably just register them. I've got NFA registered suppressors already. And if they came pounding on my door for them one day, I'd like to live to see my daughter grow up and won't be going Rambo.

Now when it comes to shutting down businesses, it's a little different to me because now you're come after my livelihood and the ability to feed, clothe and shelter my family. We (I am a small business owner) did follow the orders, the orders got out of line. Some people like to be governed. They'll argue to just sit down and shut up. Yet we all know America would be a little different today had our forefathers sat down on the job.

 

[American123]

I'm not sure how it is poking to bear to play within the legal boundaries originally set forth by the agency they've deferred to. When THEY arbitrarily change the rules ex post facto, it's more like the bear is coming into town to eat everyone's lunch on a sunny afternoon. Nobody touched or even asked the bear to get involved.

This is why ATF talks from both sides of their mouths regarding pistol braces. First it's legal as long it isn't shouldered. Then they say that it's the design that constitutes legality and the intention in that design, not the action of shouldering itself. THEN they realized they probably gave too much latitude to pistol brace owners so they go a full 180 and start threatening to make pistol braces NFA controlled accessories and turn pistols to SBRs. All of this despite the fact that crimes committed with pistol braced firearms is negligible. Not even worth mentioning. It seems like the bear is the one doing the poking.

The government gets mad when citizens legally do things that the government wants to control. They literally make the rules, and stack the deck in every way they can to control what citizens can and can't do, and then they act like it is the citizens who have done something wrong when they legally innovate and come up with similar ideas that aren't prohibited.

Then there are citizens who will complain that other citizens are legally innovating and that the government doesn't like it. Shame on you for not licking that boot!

Fudds are the worst, the self policing of the gun community is a serious problem. Most anti-gun people have no idea how these things even function, they rely on Fudds being narks on other gun others to maintain enforcement of these unconstitutional infringements.

 

[titsonritz]

These pricks would go after the Colt SSA If they saw Bob Munden get down...

The Bond Derringer too...

 

[arakboss]

These pricks would go after the Colt SSA If they saw Bob Munden get down...

The Bond Derringer too...

I would seriously shoot myself in the arm or worse if I tried that.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Can anybody think of a way to modify a S&w 15-22 bolt to work with the frt trigger? 15-22 will accept standard cassette ar triggers and will work with echo sport binary trigger if trigger lock is removed from echo sport. Seems like a guy would need to add something similar to the cmmg trip kit to the bolt to make it work?

 

[wired]

Do they accept Bitcoin

Its actually their only form of payment right now.

 

[wired]

I have watched a couple videos on it and yes, they do work very well. While I understand 'technically' the trigger does in fact have to be pulled each time I watched very closely and it appeared as though the recoil was in fact causing a 'forced' pull of the trigger as long as one maintained pressure on it.

Interestingly I found another video and it explained this and the narrator said that RBT had essentially designed a 'bump trigger' so It's easy to see why the ATF is going after them. I copied the vid at the time where this is explained.

Bump trigger ? Thats not really how they work. The way they actually work is as the bolt goes back it pushes the hammer down which in turn rotates the trigger on its axis pin and locks the trigger forward on a rear locking bar that looks a lot like a auto sear. As the bolt goes forward and the bolt rotates into battery the sear trip on the bolt carrier pushes the locking bar out of the way and allows you to complete pulling the trigger back again. Since you never released tension on the trigger face it repeats the cycle over again. In essence it has a locking bar that acts as an release sear working on the trigger to release it for pull instead of releasing the hammer as is the case with an M16 full auto trigger set.

Just watch me pull that trigger 800X per minute. Eat it Jerry Miculek

 

[RobMa]

AFT will go after everything/anything their masters tell them to go after and I don't mean the govt... their real masters...

 

[CountryGent]

Fudd Busters' take on the matter:

 

[titsonritz]

Fudd Busters'

 

[gryghin]

Louis Carroll saw the future clearly:


"When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all."

Pretty sure this was the basis of an impeachment trial argument...

Well, that would depend on what the definition of is, is... or some such

 

[gryghin]

These pricks would go after the Colt SSA If they saw Bob Munden get down...

The Bond Derringer too...

Everyday Citizens: I think if I practice, I can get that fast.

ATF: That is SO much "machine-gun" fire. Normal citizens don't have the right to have that without proper back ground checks and additional TAX stamps.

 

[wired]

Dont do that. Those hands are fragile. Be gentle with Colts.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Fudd Busters' take on the matter:

This lawyer continues to add to all the other experts that the trigger is legal due to the "one function of the trigger" definition of a machine gun.

That's why I think this is going to drag out a long time cuz rare breed have covered their bases and it would be very hard for atf to say it's a machine gun based on the current definition. atf will likely eventually change the definition imo.

And the scary part is -and that no one is paying attention to- is the atf is setting the precedent to change the definitions arbitrarily right now through the brace ban. In the brace ban language they are changing the definition of a rifle with policy for a pistol. That's nuts! This and other precedents in the brace ban can be the basis for the next assault weapons ban and more.

 

[Alexr4920]

Yeah, That's Sad but that's really true tho.

 

[rdb241]

In the spirit of the ATF's BS rule change with out dew proccess. Here is a bit about the up coming Arm Brace ruling..........It sounds just like what Rarebreed is currently going through.
This quote is from Ammo Land Shooting Sports News.

SAF has already submitted its 14-page detailed perspective on the proposal, and it pulls no punches. Right up front, the gun rights organization tells the ATF Office of Regulatory Affairs, "ATF does not have the authority to impose NFA control on stabilizing braces and its proposed rule will threaten millions of citizens with prison, harsh fines, forfeiture of firearms, and the loss of the right to own or possess firearms should they fail to comply with ATF's policy change. The NFA was not amended for these changes. No new laws were passed. Instead, ATF decided to change the scope of the NFA on its own, imposing significant burdens on core constitutional rights of over a million law abiding citizens."




Here is the entire article.......

SAF Advises Strategy as ATF Deadline Looms for Comment on Stabilizer Braces

“Time is running out and we want to provide millions of targeted gun owners the means to weigh in on this alarming proposal.”--Alan Gottlieb, SAF

www.ammoland.com