Alphabet no knock warrant shootout, agent and homeowner injured

[VinnieBoomBah]

Ask Eric Holder.

Not the point you think it is. Operation Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious were designed to track weapons movement so SN's would have been a good thing to have.

 

[Yarome]

No knock raids should be illegal.

I don't really support making no knocks illegal. Under certain circumstances I think they are an important tool for LE, but from what was in the affidavit in this case I didn't see anything that might indicate they guy was high risk or would warrant that level of interdiction.

They could have easily have detained him at any number of points during his normal daily routine. Approach him in his driveway, outside his preferred grocery store, performed a traffic stop, going in or out of work, etc. With an active tracker on his vehicle it's not like they couldn't catch up to him at their whim.

 

[solv3nt]

They did a no knock raid on my idiot, baby shaking, ex-brother-in-law when they arrested him for assaulting my <1yo nephew. He had no legal history whatsoever.

 

[Yarome]

They did a no knock raid on my idiot, baby shaking, ex-brother-in-law when they arrested him for assaulting my <1yo nephew. He had no legal history whatsoever.

I say... GOOD! And I sure hope he attempted to resist arrest.

Abusing an infant is a whole 'nother level of pure evil.

 

[solv3nt]

I say... GOOD! And I sure hope he attempted to resist arrest.

Abusing an infant is a whole 'nother level of pure evil.

Unfortunately I don't think he did. Then he kept delaying the trial. By the time they had the trial, the Doctors had all left the area. He got off with 30 days with time served and a wrist slap. Since he supposedly had a job, he went to prison on the weekends until his 30 days were up. Utter failure of the justice system. Didn't even get an assault on his record.

 

[Alexx1401]

I say... GOOD! And I sure hope he attempted to resist arrest.

Abusing an infant is a whole 'nother level of pure evil.

In a case like that I too would love to see him resist. Still not so sure about a door kick here. Did the guy have a job? Leave the home on any regular basis? Kicking a door not only makes it a danger for the Cops. If they start a shoot out and there are other people in the home while bullets start flying? The only time I can see kicking a door is some scum on the other side is an active threat to others in the home. Damn near every one I ever see done is a case of people who want to play cowboy. They often get lucky and it works. When one goes south they start in with the excuses.
How many gun owners are always freaked out about using their own gun, in their home due to fear rounds will leave the home? Get several LEO's in a gun fight in the home and how many rounds are flying around then? Arrest the scum outside the home.

 

[bradsteen]

IMO the no-knock approach should ONLY be used when (a) the suspect has a history of violent behavior - in other words, there is an articulable and specific threat to officer safety or the safety of others that would necessitate speed, surprise, and overwhelming force be used to conduct the arrest, AND (b) there are no other opportunities to apprehend the subject outside of their home where their span of control and access to weapons is limited. With the capabilities of forensic science at the disposal of law enforcement agencies today, the "preservation of evidence" argument is (again, IMO) not a good enough reason to justify no-knock warrants.

 

[solv3nt]

For the LEO's, wouldn't it always be easier to pick up a perp out in the open as opposed to their home turf? Other than movies and military actions, it seems like it's a lot easier to make a grab when they don't have home turf advantage.

 

[Alexx1401]

For the LEO's, wouldn't it always be easier to pick up a perp out in the open as opposed to their home turf? Other than movies and military actions, it seems like it's a lot easier to make a grab when they don't have home turf advantage.

It almost always is FAR better. Its just not nearly as fun as playing cowboy and kicking doors though. Often this is done as theater. Look at things like when they arrested Roger Stone. The only way this will ever change is if people in charge, who make these choices have to pay a real price when things go bad. If that started to happen no one would sign off on moronic action like this. Sadly nothing happens to those at the top though.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

It almost always is FAR better. Its just not nearly as fun as playing cowboy and kicking doors though. Often this is done as theater. Look at things like when they arrested Roger Stone. The only way this will ever change is if people in charge, who make these choices have to pay a real price when things go bad. If that started to happen no one would sign off on moronic action like this. Sadly nothing happens to those at the top though.

lolz, After rolling up all dramatic and flashy all they did was knock on his door and wait till he answered, and they even waited while he read the warrant before they went in!

I agree it was all for show, but no doors were kicked that day.

 

[Alexx1401]

lolz, After rolling up all dramatic and flashy all they did was knock on his door and wait till he answered, and they even waited while he read the warrant before they went in!

I agree it was all for show, but no doors were kicked that day.

No not that time but look at the little army they sent. Often these little shows don't amount too anything and all works out. Now and then something like this happens where someone is dead. When it does go bad of course no one is held to account. That will be the only way this stops. If they go to the wrong house, or if they get someone killed over this kind of theater? Whoever gave the OK to do this should go to prison. Then this would come to a screeching halt. Since that is not happening all we get is cover up when they screw up.

 

[Camelfilter]

No not that time but look at the little army they sent. Often these little shows don't amount too anything and all works out. Now and then something like this happens where someone is dead. When it does go bad of course no one is held to account. That will be the only way this stops. If they go to the wrong house, or if they get someone killed over this kind of theater? Whoever gave the OK to do this should go to prison. Then this would come to a screeching halt. Since that is not happening all we get is cover up when they screw up…

More likely there are SWAT teams that just go and does these. Where an investigation team writes up the warrant & gets a potatoe to sign it.

A simple lack of checks & balances.

The LEO's are not the bad guys.

Some guy(s)/gal(s) in some office somewhere totally screwed up. And doesn't care that they could. and did screw up…

IMO

 

[Knobgoblin]

No not that time but look at the little army they sent. Often these little shows don't amount too anything and all works out. Now and then something like this happens where someone is dead. When it does go bad of course no one is held to account. That will be the only way this stops. If they go to the wrong house, or if they get someone killed over this kind of theater? Whoever gave the OK to do this should go to prison. Then this would come to a screeching halt. Since that is not happening all we get is cover up when they screw up.

Breonna Taylor is a textbook example of how bad something can go.
When this was in the news, all I could focus on was the 5.56 empties the entry team generated. Zero accountability =Zero due care and caution.

 

[The Heretic]

Attorney speaks on gun show loophole explained as cause for ATF raid on home of Bryan Malinowski

The questions surrounding why the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives chose to raid the home of the Clinton National Airport’s Executive Director are starting to be answered.

www.kark.com

 

[CamoDeafie]

Attorney speaks on gun show loophole explained as cause for ATF raid on home of Bryan Malinowski

The questions surrounding why the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives chose to raid the home of the Clinton National Airport’s Executive Director are starting to be answered.

www.kark.com

"It is another reason some lawmakers want even privately sold guns registered with a mandatory background check, "
They're saying the quiet part aloud now.

 

[bradsteen]

"It would be like if my dog had had puppies and I was selling the puppies to you. I don't have to do a background check to see if you are a person who has abused animals in the past. A lot of people look at I'm just selling something that I own to another person," Wankum explained.

Because that's what it is. Private party sales are literally just you selling something you own to another person.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Because that's what it is. Private party sales are literally just you selling something you own to another person.

It's been made abundantly clear that the government, particularly the ATF view firearms as not simply private goods that rightfully belong to whoever buys them, but as privilieged goods granted to citizens by approval of government.

Edit, in the sense that arms are supposedly the property and province of government and not simply goods sold by companies for the enjoyment by citizens.
This can extend to the concept of all property and goods "belongs to the government and subject to taxation for use by citizens/subjects"

 

[Provincial]

Edit, in the sense that arms are supposedly the property and province of government and not simply goods sold by companies for the enjoyment by citizens.
This can extend to the concept of all property and goods "belongs to the government and subject to taxation for use by citizens/subjects"

This is property taxes. Renters don't realize that they pay them with their rent. I Washington, the value of cars is taxed, but called "registration."

At the Federal level, tax can be collected as part of a transaction (excise tax) and, because of the 16th Amendment, an income tax. It is not empowered to collect a tax on personal or real property, nor on financial assets (wealth).

When the 16th Amendment came up for vote by the states, many observers were surprised that it passed. What they didn't realize was that the states realized that passage of the Amendment opened the door for justifying more taxation at the state level.

 

[CamoDeafie]

This is property taxes. Renters don't realize that they pay them with their rent. I Washington, the value of cars is taxed, but called "registration."

At the Federal level, tax can be collected as part of a transaction (excise tax) and, because of the 16th Amendment, an income tax. It is not empowered to collect a tax on personal or real property, nor on financial assets (wealth).

When the 16th Amendment came up for vote by the states, many observers were surprised that it passed. What they didn't realize was that the states realized that passage of the Amendment opened the door for justifying more taxation at the state level.

Sales taxes too.

 

[Provincial]

Sales taxes too.

Sales taxes are a version of excise tax. A tax on the transaction. As are import duties, which was the only tax available to the Federal government at the beginning.